John Russell: [00:00:00] I picked it up on a Friday, had to deliver it on a Monday. On that Monday. School was out so no one was there, and the guy stops on the forklift and the whole cobalt machine falls over and hits the pavement.

Caroline: Welcome to This Weekend Trucking. We talk to serious trucking and transportation professionals and share real numbers about what it takes to make it in this industry. Today I’m talking to John Russell to talk about his cargo van Business, J and k Russell’s Trucking. Thank you so much for being here, John.

John Russell: No problem. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Caroline: All right. Tell me about j and k Russell’s Trucking. What are you guys all about?

John Russell: Man, J and k Russell’s Trucking is, the funny thing is I have my friends, they often say, why do you have trucking in your business name, but you drive a cargo van?

John Russell: I pretty much did that because, I can see a future to where I have a fleet that’s more than just cargo vans. Sure. I wouldn’t, yeah, eventually I could jump up to box trucks, R 53 foot trucks. So that’s the reason why [00:01:00] I went with trucking. I didn’t want to just be in the cargo van space and on only cargo van space.

John Russell: So that’s where the name came from. And, the J is for me, of course, John, the K is for my son Kingston. Nice. If he wants it down the road, I can pass the business on to him. I’m excited to be able to do something like that with my son.

Caroline: That’s beautiful. Who’s

John Russell: not who’s only six years old right now,

Caroline: oh, okay. So he’s not driving for you yet? Yeah, he’s not

John Russell: driving right now. No.

Caroline: Does what does he say? Do you ever ask him like, Hey, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Does he talk about your business yet, or he don’t?

John Russell: No, he don’t care about the business right now.

Caroline: He’ll get there.

John Russell: Yeah. He’ll eventually get there.

John Russell: My wife tells me I still have to pay him, but yeah.

Caroline: Nice. So tell me about the operation. How many vehicles do you have? How many do you run in the business?

John Russell: So I only have one cargo van. I am the driver myself and eventually down the road I could see myself hiring a driver, but as of right now, I’m the driver for the company. Yeah.

Caroline: All right. Yeah. [00:02:00] So what we like to do on this show is to take a look at the numbers of Okay. What it takes to run one of these businesses. We’re gonna be using Trucker Calculator to find out what the cost of running your business looks like and how much we’re bringing in.

Caroline: Just as a. Quick disclaimer to our viewers and listeners. If you hear or see any numbers on here that don’t match yours or seem way too low or way too high, please remember that there are so many things that can impact how much it costs to run a trucking company and what kind of money you’re bringing in for a transportation business, right?

Caroline: Keep in mind about, the type of equipment we’re running, whether or not it’s paid off. When you bought your vehicle, if you’re renting your vehicle, all of these things, the way that you’re renting your business. At the end of the day, what we care about is making a profit and taking care of ourselves and our loved ones.

Caroline: So that’s what our goal [00:03:00] is. We don’t need to, criticize or uphold somebody for a very specific way of running their business. There are lots of ways of running a trucking business, and we’re gonna talk about one of those ways. Let’s start off with how much how many miles you run in a particular week.

Caroline: How many miles would you say is average?

John Russell: So right now, I’ll go off of last week. Last week I had a pretty good week. I drove about 1200 miles.

Caroline: Nice. Yeah. Is that pretty typical for a cargo van business, do you think?

John Russell: It depends. So for me, I run more of like regional so I stay in the southeast region.

John Russell: So the farthest I’ve been is Oklahoma City. Other than that, I’m pretty much up the East coast, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee. South Carolina. North Carolina the furthest I’ve been up north is Wisconsin. Green Bay. Wisconsin. Yeah.

Caroline: That’s a trek. Where are you based in Atlanta?

John Russell: I’m based right outside of Atlanta.

John Russell: [00:04:00] Yeah. In McDonald, Georgia. Yeah.

Caroline: Nice.

John Russell: Yeah.

Caroline: Yeah. Atlanta to Green Bay. That’s no joke. That’s cross country. Yeah. Nice. So how many days did you work in that week?

John Russell: I worked Monday through Friday, so I was fortunate to have a load every day last week, which is the first time that I’ve done that.

Caroline: Nice.

John Russell: Normally I don’t get many loads on Fridays, but I was fortunate to get a load pretty much every day last week.

Caroline: Nice.

John Russell: Yep.

Caroline: All right. And how much did you bring in for that, for running those 1200 months?

John Russell: I brought in 1400.

Caroline: All right.

Caroline: Okay, so now we’ve gotten to the. This is, that’s the good news, right? Let’s get into the trickier stuff. Yeah. Which is the cost of doing that. So we’ve brought in a, to our total revenue is 1400. We’ve worked five days and the total miles that we’ve run is 1200. Let’s talk about truck payment, or in this case, cargo van payment.

Caroline: When did you get your cargo van and how much did it cost, and are you still paying that?

John Russell: Okay. I got [00:05:00] my cargo van. It’s crazy thing is I signed for it on February the 29th last year, so leap year. Okay. 2024. I paid right around three not 3000 right around 30,000 for my van. It’s a 2017.

John Russell: It’s used. When I purchased it, it had right around 140,000 miles on it. Oh, no, I’m sorry. Okay. 104,000 miles on it.

Caroline: Got it. Yeah. And are you, did you take out a loan to pay for that? Did you pay for it in cash?

John Russell: No. I paid a down payment. My monthly bill is seven 15, so 715 A. Okay.

Caroline: All right. So we’re looking at about $180 a week.

Caroline: If we spread that out weekly. Obviously the payment is gonna be monthly, but that’s about 15 cents per mile. You don’t have a trailer obviously, ’cause you run a cargo van. No. What about insurance? What does insurance look like for a cargo van?

John Russell: My insurance is around nine 50 right now.

Caroline: Per month.

John Russell: Per month? Yes.

Caroline: All right. And [00:06:00] what does that cover? What kind of insurance do you have to have for a cargo

John Russell: van? That’s the million dollar policy. A hundred thousand cargo.

Caroline: Okay.

John Russell: Yeah.

Caroline: And then obviously you don’t need trailer insurance. No. Do you have a dispatcher?

John Russell: I do have a dispatcher. I have a dispatching company that actually reached out to me from my YouTube channel.

Caroline: Oh, interesting.

John Russell: Yeah, they wanted to collaborate with me. At the time I wasn’t able to, because I was running for a carrier company that was exclusive. I couldn’t work with anyone else. And so once I went onto my own and got my own mc, I reached back out to them and they actually helped dispatch loads for me.

Caroline: Nice. So how I, I know that’s pretty typical in the cargo van business right? Is to use a dispatcher. What kind of rates have you seen for dispatching services and what do you pay right now?

John Russell: When I was working with Square one the carrier company, they were exclusive and I was getting 78%, they were getting 22% of every load.

John Russell: As well as I was paying my. Insurance through them.

Caroline: [00:07:00] I see.

John Russell: But now I’m, so that

Caroline: 22% covered insurance?

John Russell: No, I, okay. You were just Yeah, I had to pay, insurance was separate. I So insurance, their insurance was, I was paying 1 75 a week.

Caroline: Okay.

John Russell: Yeah.

Caroline: So a little bit better of deal than doing it on your own. But 22% is still.

Caroline: Yeah.

John Russell: That was one of the reasons I decided I wanted to go under my own mc, even though I haven’t used my own mc, ’cause I’m using another carrier company in the dispatch company. But yeah, that was, that 22% was a lot. I learned to do the math with editing my videos for my recaps at the end.

John Russell: Okay.

Caroline: So I

John Russell: knew if I did a load that made $450, I knew 78% of that was 390. And so I learned that and yeah. So yeah, 22% was a lot. Right now the dispatch company that I work for, they allowed me to, do my own rates. If I see a load or if they contact me about a load that let’s say [00:08:00] is 300 miles, if I want to, I can, bid 300 and I’ll get the full $300.

Caroline: Oh, okay. So are they working directly with brokers then to get their share?

John Russell: Yes. They’re working directly with broker. So you

Caroline: send them your bid and then they put their bid on top of it.

John Russell: They put whatever they’re gonna make on top of

Caroline: it and they bid.

John Russell: Yes.

Caroline: Got it. Got it. So you don’t really pay anything directly for dispatching like this.

Caroline: This total gross, this is what you are bringing in. And it doesn’t, the dispatching fee is actually on top of this.

John Russell: Yes, it’s on top of that. So that’s what I brought in.

Caroline: Got it. What about anything for safety compliance? Do you have any sort of auxiliary services that you use to manage your business?

John Russell: I have mild iq, that just my smile

Caroline: IQ.

John Russell: MileIQ calculates the miles that I run with my business. So it’s like a electronic login device, but it just lets me know, at the end of a, let’s say a delivery, they may say, [00:09:00] Hey, you drove, 350 miles. From two o’clock to five o’clock.

John Russell: Was that, business or was that personal? And so I just marked it as business. And that helps me when it comes to tax season, to know exactly how many miles I ran with my band. So MyQ Mile IQ is running.

Caroline: How much does that run you? Is that a monthly cost? Like it’s a cost SaaS product cost?

John Russell: I think it just went up to 6, 9, 9 a month.

John Russell: It was 5 99. I think it just went up 6, 9 9. Oh, if

Caroline: I’m

John Russell: mistaken. Yeah.

Caroline: All right. So nothing totally negligible.

John Russell: Yeah. Yeah.

Caroline: That’s awesome. That’s a hack. Yeah. That’s awesome. I’m gonna put a dollar 50. Yep. After a couple of technical difficulties. We’re getting back into it. John, thank you so much for your patience.

Caroline: No problem. So we were talking about this decision, wages and bonuses for an owner operator when you don’t have drivers. Some people like to assign themselves a salary as the business owner or as the driver. And then take anything else on top of that and other owner operators just take whatever is left over.

Caroline: After all the business expenses. [00:10:00] How do you manage this?

John Russell: Right now I do the second option. Once everything is taken out, I just. Take what’s left. I have been talking with a financial advisor and she did inform me that I should pay myself as well yeah. Interesting. What was the

Caroline: reason she did tell that?

Caroline: That she gave for that,

John Russell: Just to help with tax purposes actually.

Caroline: Okay.

John Russell: And so I’m in the process of doing the numbers and figuring that out. Yes.

Caroline: Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. So I would love to know, I think we’re gonna try and find a financial advisor or planner. Okay. Who works with trucking business owners, because that would be such a good conversation for people to have.

Caroline: In one of our last videos, someone commented to say Hey, you’re talking about, you’re talking to owner operators and you’re talking about their take home, but that’s not actually their take home. Their take home is after taxes. So we’ll get into that. In, at the end of this, right now we’re just talking about the business.

Caroline: What does the business make? And then after, of course, as an owner operator, as a business owner, you have to pay taxes on your income. And [00:11:00] that, that business income counts as your income if you’re the business owner. You don’t have any deductions, right?

Caroline: Because you’re running under your own business. You said that you’re, did you say that you’re running under your own authority right now, or are you running under someone else’s lease on?

John Russell: So right now I am, letting my au authority mature, my mc mature. I found out quickly, jumping in the low board that a lot of the.

John Russell: Brokers are currently only working with, people that mc is mature right? At least three to six months. Some have said six to 12 months.

Caroline: Wow.

John Russell: So yes, so I had had to go back to the carrier company and the dispatching company. So right now when they do find me Lowe’s, I’m running under their mc.

John Russell: But I do have mine and I’m letting mine mature,

Caroline: and anything that they are making on top of that’s just on top of that 1400, right? Yes. So that’s why that we’re still using 1400 as our main gross. It might be higher once you get to use your own authority for everything.

John Russell: Exactly, yes.

Caroline: [00:12:00] All right. Let’s talk about other expenses like fuel. Does your van run on gasoline, diesel? And how much do you pay? How much, how many gallons would

John Russell: you typically

Caroline: buy? Gasoline. Gasoline. Gasoline. And how many gallons of gas did you go through last week?

John Russell: I’m not sure on how many gallons.

John Russell: I would have to go back and look at the numbers, but it,

Caroline: do you know what fuel mileage you get for your van?

John Russell: Yes. Right around. In between? Highway is anywhere from 20 to 25 miles per gallon.

Caroline: Wow. All right.

John Russell: Yep.

Caroline: So if we took, so that’s highway. How much of your work, how many of your miles are highway miles, do you think?

John Russell: Out of the 1200, I would say probably. At least a thousand.

Caroline: Okay. So mostly we’re not

John Russell: most of it, yeah. Most of it is highway.

Caroline: Okay. So let’s take 20 then as our average on the conservative end of the estimate that you said. So if we get 20 miles to the gallon and we had 1200 miles, then that’s gonna be about 60 gallons.

John Russell: Okay.

Caroline: [00:13:00] Alright. And then how much do you usually pay for fuel? Do you have an idea of that?

John Russell: Fuel? I would say it depends. ‘ cause right now with fuel is about anywhere from $2 and 79 cents to $3 for me right now. I. Roughly anywhere from 60 to $70 for a full tank.

Caroline: For a fill. Yeah. So if we take the middle of that, you said 2 79 to three, we’ll take two 90.

John Russell: Yeah, we’ll take, we’ll do two 90,

Caroline: so that’s about $174.

John Russell: Yep.

Caroline: And then how about tolls?

Caroline: You said that you hit up the northeast. Yes. Or the Atlantic Coast. So I know that the tolls around there can be pretty high, but for a cargo van, what do those tolls look like?

John Russell: The most so for the Wisconsin, trip, even though that’s not, that won’t be included in last week. ’cause last week I didn’t have any.

John Russell: So that 1400 Yeah, we would, I didn’t have any toes for that.

Caroline: Nice. So what about maintenance? What do you have to do every month? [00:14:00] Quarter? Ma

John Russell: maintenance is more, so right now is just oil change. Just making sure the oil my oil change is good and for the most part that, that’s my maintenance is oil change right now.

Caroline: And how often do you have to get oil changed, and how much does that cost?

John Russell: I try to do I do every 5,000 miles. I also learned to, after the 5,000 miles to check my own oil. At times I can go a little longer before I get another oil change. Okay. But right around that 5,000 to 6,000 miles.

John Russell: So probably like

Caroline: once a month.

John Russell: Once a month,

Caroline: maybe every six weeks depending on how long you’ve running, how many pounds you’ve done.

John Russell: I running, yeah. Yes.

Caroline: How much does it cost or do you do your own oil changes?

John Russell: My oil change costs $75.

Caroline: Okay. It’s pretty negligible. If we take 75, let’s say we take 75 divided by four weeks, 18, 19 bucks.

Caroline: Do you save anything additionally for maintenance? Like a rainy day fund where you might need something? At times. At times

John Russell: I [00:15:00] do.

Caroline: Okay.

John Russell: At sometimes I do when I do have a chance to but some weeks aren’t, as good as others. Sure. So sometimes I may put money to the side depending on how much I made that week.

Caroline: Got it. You don’t need an ELD ’cause you are a cargo van. You also don’t need ifta, right? Because cargo vans no aren’t are below the weight limit,

John Russell: right? Less than 10,000,

Caroline: right? Less than 10,000 pounds. Anything else that you can think of for for expenses for your business?

John Russell: For the business? That is pretty much it.

Caroline: Now, I gave you a scare there for a second because it said 19% on maintenance. And so I had to fix it. I had to change it to fixed ’cause it is $19 and 19%. That would be a very big difference. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Looks like you have about a. 56% profit margin. So for last week you worked five days. The profit per day was about $158.

Caroline: Your cost per mile looks like about [00:16:00] 50 cents and your rate per mile is one 17. So that’s breaking down all of these costs. Obviously this is all estimate. Back in the napkin, what you can remember. This might, these might not be, precise really precise calculations here, but is there anything in here when looking at these numbers, is there anything here that like surprises you?

Caroline: How often do you do this kind of calculation for your business?

John Russell: So I have worked with, trucker Pocket. Nice. And it’s very similar to this. Interesting. And yes.

Caroline: Oh, cool.

John Russell: I’ve worked with Trucker Pocket. You can also add in your your actual business bank account. And it actually categorizes everything. So it categorizes how much you spend in fuel, how much you spend on entertainment, how much you spend on maintenance.

Caroline: Fascinating.

John Russell: Yeah.

Caroline: This poor guy in this stock photo, he is on every website.

Caroline: This is awesome. I’m gonna take a Yep. Take a look at that. Sure. That’s sweet. All right, I’m gonna go ahead and stop sharing my screen. There we go. So thanks again, John, [00:17:00] for sharing. No problem. All of that information with us about your business. Can you tell us a little bit more about what inspired you to start your cargo van business and what you’re thinking about it for the future?

John Russell: Yeah. So I was working regular nine to five. I was working for an insurance company, had been there going on 10 years. And to be honest, I have been passed over for a promotion four times. Wow. Yeah, and it was becoming pretty depressing. It was rough times and I knew for my mental health, it was best for me to.

John Russell: Leave and find something else to do. The cargo van business, the trucking business, initially wasn’t the plan. But it was something that I loved doing. I started out doing a gig app with go share. And so I was, delivering furniture TVs, paintings, and I enjoyed it. But that was just like a part-time thing whenever I can to make extra money.

John Russell: And my wife was talking to me and she was like you say you enjoy [00:18:00] doing the, making deliveries. And I have actual two family members that are also in the trucking business. And I talked to them often and, they would telling me how they love what they do. They, they make their own hours, they’re making really good money and, after that fourth promotion I was passed on, I was like, it’s time. Yeah. And so I love drive, I love driving, I love traveling. I love seeing new sites. And my adventure has been pretty great so far. I’ve saw, I’ve seen a lot and that’s what really got me into the trucking business is doing a little bit with the gig app and it manifests in all the way up to actually having my own business now.

Caroline: That’s awesome.

John Russell: Yeah.

Caroline: So describe for me a little bit about the things that you learned or the things that surprised you when you first started your own business.

John Russell: The biggest one that I’m still somewhat dealing with the F-M-C-S-A is because I have a cargo van. Me not knowing, I selected Van not knowing that in the trucking world, a van is a [00:19:00] 53 foot Yes.

Caroline: Such a small semantic

John Russell: Yeah. Difference. And so ISI selected Van and I’ve been having to. Go back and forth and fill out forms to get that changed. And it’s been a headache, but, we get it done. That’s one big thing. And I had to learn I guess I would call it truckers cy on the road.

Caroline: Okay. Yeah. Etiquette. Yeah,

John Russell: etiquette. I learned to, my van is a commercial vehicle the big rigs, the big truck drivers, they, I’m sure they feel as if, if I’m in a commercial van, I should know the rules and I’ve been chewed out. They’ve blown the horn at me and fussed at me while I’m driving.

John Russell: So that was one of the things that I’ve learned to the proper way of moving around. While driving, not to just, if I see it open and not to just cut in front of a semi-truck when I had something heavy in the back. I wanna say I’ve done close to 115 loads, and I’ve probably, almost half of them have been [00:20:00] anywhere from one pound to 50 pounds.

John Russell: The heaviest I’ve had was around 23 to 2,400 pounds. Wow. And I learned quickly that, you have to start stopping a lot earlier when you have heavier.

Caroline: No kidding. Yeah.

John Russell: Yeah. So that was another big thing that I learned quickly was, when you have heavy cargo, you have to be mindful and make sure that you’re stopping or starting to stop a lot earlier.

John Russell: Yeah.

Caroline: Tell me about, do you have any memories or stories about like crazy loads or situations that you’ve been in, like out of those 115, what’s the funniest or,

John Russell: Surprising? I would say the Cobalt machine. I picked up a cobalt machine. I didn’t know what that was, but apparently it’s like a robot for like medical.

John Russell: Things. Yes. I picked it up on a Friday, had to deliver it on a Monday, which was the first time I did that. I was able to go home, park my van, lock my van up and sit there until Sunday and I had to deliver it Monday [00:21:00] morning. But I had to deliver it to a school. Tech in Tennessee, first time delivering freight to a school.

John Russell: And on that Monday school was out. So no one was there.

Caroline: Oh, no.

John Russell: Yeah, so no one was there. I sat there, talked to my dispatcher, and the librarian stopped by to get something from the library. I spoke with her, she got me in contact with the person that actually, purchased the Cobalt machine and he wasn’t able to come until the next day.

John Russell: Yeah. And so I informed him that, unfortunately for me having to stay, it would cost more money.

John Russell: And so he offered to bring his tractor to unload it, and I didn’t feel comfortable doing that.

Caroline: Yeah.

John Russell: And, we ended up, I agreed to drive to Knoxville, which was like another 80 miles maybe.

John Russell: Yeah. I drove to Knoxville and they went to unload me, but the cargo needed an extension for the forklift. And so what, I’m sorry. So they wasn’t [00:22:00] able to unload me, so we went to a nearby. John Deere factory, they didn’t have an extension. We went to another facility which they did have an extension, so they were able to unload me finally.

John Russell: So I got unloaded and they told me I could go back to the original facility to get my VOL paperwork signed and they would bring it over. And so I took a picture of it, outta my van. I drive to get my paperwork done and I get it done and I see them driving it and the guy stops on the forklift and the whole cobalt machine falls over and hits the pavement.

John Russell: Not to mention, the customer told me that. It cost $80,000.

Caroline: Oh my God.

John Russell: Yes. Oh, man. But after that

Caroline: it’s out of your hands, right? Yeah. So

John Russell: once, once it was outta my van, it was outta my hands. And I actually took a picture and I recorded them picking it back up.

John Russell: Just for my sake. Because yeah. That’s [00:23:00] $80,000 machine. That,

Caroline: that was smart of you to

John Russell: Yeah.

Caroline: Be documenting that. You didn’t know that they were gonna be irresponsible or careless. With some things. So the fact that you had proof that it exited your vehicle Yeah. Without a scratch is probably really important.

Caroline: Did you have to. Did you have to fight that? Did the company want No, I didn’t want you to pay for it. No, they were, no, they handled it. No.

John Russell: I, so I reached back. Once that happened, I reached back out to my dispatching company and I let ’em know Hey, I just saw them

John Russell: Drop this machine.

John Russell: And also because I have a YouTube channel, I had recorded them unloading me and it was perfectly fine. So that was one of the times that I was glad that I’m actually a content creator. Yeah,

Caroline: no kidding. Because I

John Russell: ha I pretty much have proof on every load that I do. So yeah I would say that one was the craziest.

Caroline: Wow. Oh my gosh. I can’t imagine that. When, so when did that happen? Was it pretty soon after you started?

John Russell: Yes, that was, I would say that was. Maybe three months in, [00:24:00] maybe.

Caroline: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Wow. If not

John Russell: sooner, probably it was sooner than three months. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah.

Caroline: Your, I’m assuming then your advice for new carriers is just start a YouTube channel, even if you don’t

John Russell: Yes.

John Russell: Even if you really don’t want to. I would say if you can

Caroline: Just

John Russell: record everything, it’s definitely came in handy for me. Yeah. And, recording and being a content creator on YouTube actually brings in another income for me now,

Caroline: oh, that’s great.

John Russell: Yeah.

Caroline: That’s awesome. Yeah.

Caroline: You’re just starting to get your business off the ground in the last year or so. What do you see for the future of j and k?

John Russell: More I eventually would love to, down the road no time soon, probably in another year or two to, get another van or expand and maybe get a box truck.

John Russell: And go with that. I would love to. I’m all about helping people. When I started my YouTube channel, it was just to, oh, I want to be a content creator. I want to, when I did my research on becoming a owner operator. For the most part, I watched a lot of [00:25:00] other owner operators that were doing content on YouTube.

Caroline: Yeah.

John Russell: And that motivated me to, hey, I can do this too. And once I started posting videos, my first video I ever posted is almost, has 65,000 views.

Caroline: Wow.

John Russell: Yeah. And I quickly learned that a lot of people are looking to get into this business. And they are reaching out. They see my videos, they see how much, how transparent I am.

John Russell: I don’t, I don’t, I may say I made $300, but after gas and after the dispatch percentage, you’ll see, oh, I made $300, but I only really profited, $175.

John Russell: And so they reach out to me and now I’m doing more of an educational. A thing where I’m helping, other people that want to get into this business.

John Russell: That’s awesome. And yeah, that’s, I think that’s, that is one thing where I see myself going as well is helping, be like a consultant to help other [00:26:00] people that, want to get into this business, be successful. I’m thankful to be. Able to continue to do this. On the last video that I po I haven’t posted it, but, one of the lows that I did on March the 21st last week, that made a full year for me.

John Russell: And, I was super excited because I know, and I’ve heard of a lot of people that don’t make it a year in this business. And so to. Be able to make it a year was a big milestone for me. So definitely I’m excited about more and yeah.

Caroline: Congratulations on that first year. Thank you. Having your authority age, that’s gonna be another milestone, right?

Caroline: And then you’ll be able to book your own loads and start really creating more relationships with your customers. Thank you so much again. Thank you for your transparency. There are so many people that on this platform and many platforms that talk about how much money they’re making, but they don’t always talk about the cost of how much it costs to actually run that operation.

Caroline: So appreciate your [00:27:00] transparency and your time. Thank you so much for joining us on this week. No talking, John.

John Russell: No problem at all. Thank you all for having me again.

Caroline: All right. Drive safe everybody.