Hassan Transportation

Caroline: [00:00:00] Welcome to this Weekend Trucking. My name is Caroline. This is the show where we talk to real trucking professionals about what it takes to be successful as a carrier in this business.

Caroline: Today, we have very special guests, Xandr and Cannon, from Hassan Transportation and Logistics. They are freight brokerage, and we are going to get an insider’s look today on what brokers are looking for and how carriers can set themselves up for success. So thanks for being here, Xander and Cannon.

Kanon: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity.

Caroline: Awesome. So one thing every new carrier wants to know right now, I know this because I get this question every single day from multiple emails and messages to our website. What do they need to do to set themselves up and be ready to work with freight brokers like yourself? Do they need to age their authority?

Caroline: What does that mean and why is any of that important?

Kanon: Sure.

Xander: you wanna start Canon?

Kanon: Yeah. Yeah. I can start. [00:01:00] And then you can jump in. Let Dan touch on, the authority aspect of it. But, this is something that, that I see really often in this industry. And it’s just how the landscape has. Has progressed over the past few years.

Kanon: There’s just, there’s such a divide between brokerages and carriers. It’s two different sides. do carriers think about themselves as being on the same team as brokers. So I think getting over that division and changing the mindset between that relationship is really key. I know that. There’s a lot of caution on the carrier side, as far as working with the brokers as far as rate transparency goes. There are tons of, Supreme Court cases right now with, super large logistics brokerages, that are dealing with, rate transparency issues.

Kanon: So I, I think finding the right partners and having the right state of mind when going into relationships, especially as a small carrier with a brokerage, whether it be large or small is really important. So with that being said, brokers on our side, [00:02:00] we also have a lot of reservations on the carrier side as well, especially right now with the amount of fraud and theft that are in the industry.

Kanon: So what I would say. To a smaller carrier on their front, that are trying to get consistent freight from brokers. They one need to just be a little bit more open-minded just because over the past few years, like I said, that division has really taken root and we need to get back on the same page and we need to operate as a team.

Kanon: We need to communicate transparently with each other so that not only we can make money, the carrier can make money and the customer can get what they’re looking for service wise. So that’s. One of the biggest things that I would say, and with the small carriers that we work with, they pretty much, they become a part of our family.

Kanon: There’s no secrets because we’re open about our rates with them so that we can strategize in the best way with them. On, okay, we can put this on top of the shipment. How much room is this gonna leave you to make money on top of the shipment? Then we can come [00:03:00] do an agreement and move the load from there.

Kanon: That’s something that doesn’t happen too much with large brokerages. And I know this from personal experience because I’ve worked for one of the largest brokerages in the country, and that’s one of the reasons why I left, is the way that carriers were treated and also the way that I was treated as, as a manager there.

Kanon: It. something that, that’s been going on for a long time. I know carriers are very frustrated with it. I hear them speaking out, on LinkedIn and, freight waves on all these different platforms, about how they’re getting screwed over by brokers. So I just, the one thing that I would say is that, there are brokers out there that don’t operate like that. We pride ourselves in being one of those brokerages. So when it comes to, the onboarding process. Smaller carriers can be willing to go through a little bit more vigorous of an onboarding process due to the fraud and theft climate in the industry right now. They just need to know it is not personal.

Kanon: It’s protection. And, we’ve experienced theft in a super real way over the past year. And I’ll let Xander touch on that a little bit more. Right [00:04:00] now.

Xander: Absolutely. And it great point. Kenon, it’s really just making sure that there’s a clear line of communication and transparency with the carriers. I started around the same time in logistics. Kenon did back in 2020 and. Just being a, I came outta Marriott. I was started as a pool boy with them.

Xander: I always wanted to start my own hotel and. into logistics and the biggest thing that I found on the account that I learned on and trained on was that these loads, and we’re currently running them now, they’re based off carrier relationships. We currently run some loads in California, combating that freight theft.

Xander: Again, we’ll touch on that. But. We’re able to find these partners where I could be, I could get a load. I’m be on vacation tomorrow. I could get a load at six o’clock tomorrow. It would be their time there ’cause it’ll be west. But I could text Raul. I know right off the top of my head. You got a truck?

Xander: Yeah. He’ll be there in 20 minutes. Perfect. I’ll get the paperwork over you tomorrow. Usually, bro carriers won’t give you that trust, but that relationship was built over two years of just consistent good service from him. I paid a [00:05:00] premium for that price and explained and educated my customer on that. And I. I think with some carriers it’s, we want to make sure that we’re quoting correctly to make sure we’re winning the business. But we also don’t wanna put you in a tough position. ’cause if I’ve got you on the line. For two hours saying, yeah this is my book, this my book, and it’s not a load that’s booked.

Xander: I’m wasting your time. And that’s just disrespectful. Even though it can get overwhelming too, and DAT would get back to carriers on rates and, the different systems that we’re using I try to get back, even if the load’s covered, because I want them to start being able to cover that truck.

Xander: ’cause I know what that money means with that. That truck being loaded the broker, I’m sorry, with the carrier just starting out with us. Really one, you gotta have some kind For me, I work with, I’ve been doing a lot of different fighting off scammers, but finding good carriers as well. But the biggest thing is the camaraderie. I don’t have to rip if you’re just saying what’s your rate? I’m not, I. Generally gonna work with you because I’d say, Hey, I saw this load available. My truck’s available in Lakewood, New Jersey accepts macro point. You seem more of a valid entity to me.

Xander: If I just get [00:06:00] what’s your rate? What’s your rate? One, it right off the bat that’s fraud. And two, I, I don’t think that’s really the great way to lead with that. I think it’s. What is your mc Let me vet you real quick. Lemme make sure we do the right things. And this is if you’re a vetted carrier, you’re also helping the rest of the industry as well by making sure that we are going through this process and stopping brokers that aren’t going through that process. Because it’s very important with theft. But. I’m generally gonna work with somebody if they’ve got a year under their belt, just like ourselves. We have a year and a half. There’s different ways to build credibility. If they’ve got a year to two years under their belt, generally people say, oh, we won’t work with them, but I’d be hypocritical to not give ’em a chance.

Xander: If there was somebody on the other line who was genuine and had all the paperwork and things set up in an organized manner where I can go to my customer and say, Hey, listen, I’ve got this quote. It’s a little bit higher than your other guy that you had mentioned earlier. However, I’ve got a great carrier on this.

Xander: I know that you had mentioned you had some previous issues in the past. There’s negotiating going on for the carrier that the cus that the carrier doesn’t even know about and it’s trying to get some more money for proper pay because, I don’t like making thin [00:07:00] margins on my stuff and I’m sure carriers don’t either. But wrapping this all together and really what it takes to. think have a good relationship, like Canon said, is the transparency and communication. And you’re not gonna get that overnight. It’s gonna be given to by opportunities. I’ll end on this, but I had a customer yesterday, we’re going through that annoying setup process where you’re a new company and this isn’t wrapped into this.

Xander: And I said we didn’t get denied. No, we’re just not accepting new carriers. However, keep reaching out. I said are we too small of a company or is we don’t have enough credibility? She said, no, absolutely not. TQL and CH Robinson had to start somewhere. They had a day one too. I love working with brokers like yourself because you have those partnerships with carriers that, other brokers don’t really not care about, but there’s just so much more to their volume that matters to them than the five customers that I would have on a daily basis just running the book myself. I. Sorry, I keep going ’cause I like this topic. But carriers should really look for these smaller companies and two to three business two, two to three years in business getting close to ourselves because there’s like-minded people that are building just like [00:08:00] the carriers are with their new MCs or their new entity.

Caroline: So think about someone who is just starting out in 2025, creating their authority from day one. And what have you seen in terms of what have you seen as new carriers being successful in their first year? What do they need to do in those first couple of months to establish themselves so that when they do get a chance to work with you and you’re trying to vet them, what does that vetting process look like?

Caroline: What are the aspects that you’re looking for?

Xander: Yeah, first, first and foremost it’s having the right paperwork and understanding. I’m not asking these questions to get. Under your skin I’m asking these questions, so it’s done the right way. I’m working as an entity of my customer, which is my value. The value is the truck as well, so I’m stuck in the middle.

Xander: I don’t wanna disrupt either two. For a carrier in 2025 right now, just be very careful. There’s a lot of fraud out in the market right now. We’re currently wrapping up this hate say it, but it does happen. The second truck that, we unfortunately got, these [00:09:00] guys are getting good, but and I thought I was pretty good with these guys are trained on this.

Xander: I think there’s black market training facilities for this stuff. It’s pretty crazy how in depth this is, and I’ll have a story later that I’m actually currently dealing with. Very bad in real stuff. But, I would say in this market, just be honest with the people that you’re working with vet your brokers.

Xander: It’s not just brokers, not four pls, three pls, just vetting carriers. It’s the other way around too. There’s. Double brokers in this market that are unfortunately taking advantage of carriers. And we’ve seen it too, where drivers redirected 2,400 miles. I’m just finishing up that off of a blind shipment that was hacked.

Xander: $400,000 of product’s gone.

Caroline: Wow.

Xander: we found it just because I had been through the process before last year we lost a truck of dog food and the commodity on there was very expensive. And the guy took the load for cash from the cartel. So

Caroline: Wow.

Xander: and, the driver, unfortunately, he pressed, we pressed charges.

Xander: The insurance company did ’cause the value of the load. We were able to recoup [00:10:00] the funds. But the load, we have no idea. But. Again, it’s the carrier side of things. What I would say the most important thing is make sure that you build those strong partnerships in your first year. Find those people that are able to, you can give a call and say, Hey I’m, my truck’s empty right now.

Xander: I need some loads out of such and such because, as we grow, we’re gonna be working the loads out of all over the place. I know with the previous company that we worked for you could see. Exactly what loads were coming out of there. And you could negotiate those with that carrier and say, Hey, I got a load coming back to your house, to your home area. So those partnerships, they’re not easy to find. They’re people that are gonna be on the other line that really care. That, that’s what I would say.

Kanon: Yeah. Yeah. And that just to touch on this just real slightly as well, some things that these carriers can do as far as outreach and as far as trying to establish themselves, what. We’ve found successful in what I’ve spoken to some of the smaller carriers that we [00:11:00] partner with and we’ve built these relationships with. We’ve met a lot of these guys off of LinkedIn. Just the right kind of outreach is huge for smaller companies, whether it be a brokerage or a carrier, so if it’s a smaller carrier, first year in 2025, they should hop on LinkedIn. They should start finding, some brokerages in the area where they have trucks, and then they should start trying to make partnerships that way.

Caroline: Local relationships, staying local at first and that way you can, nothing beats in person. Communication, right in person. Hey, shaking your hand, here’s my business card. Look, you can literally see my physical truck. There, there’s nothing more legitimate. Than that. And with the rise of AI and technology where you I was, watching a video essay of someone talking about how doctored.

Caroline: Videos and images are now making it so that we can no longer rely. We used to be able to rely on the fact that if you [00:12:00] saw a picture of it or you saw a video of it, that was the truth and we can’t, we can no longer rely on that. And so that actually brings us backs in some ways. I think technology will help us combat that, but in otherwise being very low tech.

Caroline: Being very low tech is actually now way more legitimate. So making those relationships in person then becomes so important. Do you all go to events like broker, carrier summit or places like that to, to make those relationships or meet carriers?

Xander: So right now in our first two years, it’s really been the focus of outreach and making sure that we have the right base of customers. And also too, we’ve found that a lot of these systems that we were using in our first year, we might have. We, they might have been a bit, a little bit too big for our size, so we’re cutting some expenses and we’re trying to customize it.

Xander: However, we get invites to the broker Summit for sure. I actually spoke to somebody a couple months ago about it. These tickets though, are expensive. And it is really tough to get these get into these [00:13:00] conferences as a small business right now. And I don’t really see a lot of exceptions being made when I actually had the time to sit down and spend two, three hours for, maybe a voucher for somebody had accomplished something Fortune 5,000, their first year thousand, I’m sorry, first year. But honestly I worked with a solar company before this and. the conferences were great. They were awesome, but they were also, in my opinion, saturated with a lot of people looking for the same exact things, especially when they’re logistics based. Getting face time with people was near impossible.

Xander: Now if you’re one of the big wigs and you’ve got emails and you’ve said, Hey, I’m the big wig at black and beach, or something like that, you have that pool to say, yo John president of the company, let’s go get dinner. Because he’s, that’s just who that group is. I really think that we are at an advantage here as a early company that we don’t have to, not rely, but have to focus on going to those events.

Xander: And this LinkedIn sales navigator outreach is really responsive because it’s allowing us to [00:14:00] get into people’s hands, not to their desk. I would love to go to more conferences because I love traveling and go to all those different things. But I think there, we would have to choose very niche conferences to get that exposure to some of these companies that we’re looking for.

Caroline: Got it. And when you all are onboarding new carriers, do you have a minimum of how long they have to have been in business to work with them, or do you have other checks that you can make an exception for?

Xander: We do have some exceptions. For example, if you’re like eight months into business and you’ve got three vehicles some inspections, a couple violations, those are bound to happen sometimes, what I’m looking at that Mc, what I’m looking for is if you started a month ago, I’m sorry, you’ve gotta build your rep with somebody else.

Xander: And also that’s a huge red flag for theft right now.

Caroline: Yeah.

Xander: not the

Kanon: Un, unfortunately. Yeah.

Xander: Yeah, unfortunately, and not to bash the company we’re using to source our trucks, but they’ve gotta get under control and take some responsibility for some of these guys that are actually paying cash to [00:15:00] the owners of these MCs that are going outta business and using them as a fraudulent entity. I’ve seen it happen three times now.

Caroline: Wow.

Xander: With DA you can cut that out, but I just, it’s very frustrating and it’s hard because when, no matter you, you expect to rely on the company search and put in the mc and, come back, Hey, we’re a vetted carrier, and it tells you that.

Xander: I just had it the other day and, something had happened and. I’m listen, I don’t know who that person is. I don’t know who Scarlet is. I spoke to a surge and little do you know, you go back and check after the load’s delivered and it’s double brokered by an entity internationally, but they’ve been paid by the factory companies

Kanon: Phone numbers are canceled. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a mess. And I wanted to circle back real quick to something that that you said, Caroline, on, how low tech can sometimes be better? So got a buddy that works at a truck trucking company that specialize in automotive trucking.

Kanon: It’s called B Cat Logistics. And so he just. Created a very simple tech [00:16:00] platform that would do what you’re mentioning. As far as like people being able to use AI to doctor videos and pictures and stuff like that. It’s called Jobs Done. And it’s kind, it’s all done over, over text message and it so it’s low tech in the way that, that you can’t really counterfeit it. It works super simply. So that may be something for smaller carriers to look at for sure.

Caroline: That’s cool.

Kanon: Yeah it’s super cool and it’s so easy to use and it’s not expensive. It, I’m not getting paid for saying this. I just think that, that small carriers could benefit from using this. It, I think would honestly, we’re gonna end up using it as well on our side. Just because as far as sending DODs pictures of trucks, things like that it makes it way easier. Everything’s all stored in one location, so it’s a lot, harder to. To, present fraudulent information.

Caroline: Yeah, we’re dealing with that all the time, obviously, as a factoring company, right? Because if we, factor an invoice. Or we get an invoice from somebody and it looks doctored or the rate con looks doctored or, what have you. [00:17:00] We might have the relationship with our carrier already.

Caroline: They might be vetted, but they can get taken advantage of by people who are kering these loads illegally and double brokering stuff. And then they’ve done the actual work and they send us the information and all of a sudden we see that their documents have a different carrier’s name on it. We’re like, Hey.

Caroline: This doesn’t match your carrier name. This phone number doesn’t match. This company name doesn’t match what’s going on here. And as long as we get the information as soon as they’ve delivered it, sometimes we have an opportunity to reverse. And make sure that the broker doesn’t pay the true broker doesn’t pay the fraudster, but a lot of the times we get the information too late and it’s too late and they’ve, gotten quick pay on the load and that broker’s not gonna pay for it twice.

Caroline: So what are some of the things that you all are doing to make sure that the carriers that you’re working with aren’t re brokering the load to somebody else?[00:18:00]

Xander: So we and it’s something I’ve really, since I mean it’s a scary thing when this happens. And I’ve sat in it and Canon has been there when I have been up at late hours trying to figure out in California, for my customer where this thing is. There there’s many a ways.

Xander: No matter how many times I go over it in my head of, the situations that have happened, there are there’s just things you wouldn’t think that somebody would think of doing. And it’s so easy to miss, even with the most experienced of people.

Kanon: Or with the most expensive tech even, even, we’re supposed to be able to rely on, these companies that have been around for over 20 years, to present us with, with MCs and, trucker information that’s legitimate. That it’s just, but. they’re finding a way past their security protocols, even,

Xander: and it goes as far too I, this current situation, really what it is now you will not get an address until you turn your tracking on. I don’t care if it’s macro point or I think Canon was, we’re working on another [00:19:00] one too as well. But you’ve got a true ping somewhere and it’s gotta be within a, your deadhead radius that you said it was gonna be over the phone. That is the other thing too. Some things can get very fast and you forget to call them. And it’s just via email and that’s very

Xander: Because you just forget. And I’ve caught it a couple times where like I’ll book a load. I’m like, oh wait a minute. I forgot that step. Lemme go back.

Xander: Ah. This guy, that’s not the right insurance. Donald Tramp a is not a place in Florida. So you start to notice these things it’s. We vet our carriers based off of, if you’re gonna turn your tracking on, if your COI is good. The cargo insurance, what I would say for carriers though, and something I’m dealing with now and I’m trying to help out this carrier that unfortunately was a victim of double brokerage and he missed out on quite a bit of money, but nobody wants to take responsibility for it.

Xander: I did my part in finding the freight to bring it back. But I’m trying to get him something from the shipper because problem is at the shipper. They changed the BOL and they didn’t tell anybody. [00:20:00] And we’ve also confirmed IDs and everything like that. They just loaded the wrong truck clearly, and I have it on video of them doing it for three hours.

Xander: So now they’re saying We’re not paying for it ’cause we’re not responsible. I’m like, no, that’s negligence. And also the driver, unfortunately the driver should have went back and said something and so no, this is weird. But somewhere

Kanon: have called us right.

Xander: And somewhere along the lines of when he got loaded up, he went to the parking lot. And I fast forward the video, about three hours sitting there. Somebody had hacked the system either at the warehouse, got the BOL, or they got the BOL from him. Told him, Hey, we’re doing a blind shipment. You’re gonna be going to California now instead of down south

Kanon: Instead of Charlotte, right? Yeah.

Xander: Yeah. So he drove. 24, 2400 miles over the weekend without me knowing. We confirmed with the warehouse that he was there twice before it was, I remember the times. It was 3:32 PM on February 20th and 3 30, 3 38, we confirmed that. But after the fact that he left, they said yes, something was fishy. There, the, there was a [00:21:00] different, don’t wanna get too far into it, but. I get a call two weeks later. Hey, we found your freight out in in California. It’s in this warehouse. We’re investigating. We’ve got about 12 truckloads that have been stolen. Walmart, TJ Maxx, lg. We’ve arrested about eight people today. We have the, we don’t, your load was dropped off here.

Xander: We saw the cameras. It was immediately picked up when it was dropped off. There’s in our, there at this time, there was somebody that was in a federal prison in the middle of the country in Colorado orchestrating these freight thefts from a prison cell. Which made sense because whenever I called him to get check calls, he was very quiet.

Caroline: Wow.

Xander: this detective is telling this story and I’m telling my customer, and I, she’s not believing. She’s this is the worst excuse I’ve ever heard. I’m like, I’m not kidding. This is a real thing.

Kanon: You can’t make this up. Yeah. Yeah. It’s

Xander: driver is, was

Kanon: to make up.

Xander: He’s being really cooperative and I was like, listen man you do that for one but two, like, where to go?

Xander: And he actually went back to the warehouse for me, with the police officer to speak with the manager. That lease in that warehouse for that [00:22:00] space was, like I said, with ai, an ID of a federal inmate in Colorado that was put onto a lease for the warehouse that was approved. And the actual criminals were on the ground stealing the freight, putting

Kanon: Transloading it.

Xander: the side of the trucks, stolen trucks.

Caroline: Unbelievable.

Xander: fast forward two months later, I get another call. It’s the FBI and the Sheriff’s Department out in Ventura, California outta warehouse. That’s unmanned. There’s people living in it. They arrested 18 people from in San Diego near the border. And there were 12 truckloads in there. Mounting maybe about. $320 million worth of freight. I have pictures of all this stuff. So police brought all the freight out, they put it onto these three little trucks and they said, this is the excess freight. I’m like, what do you mean excess freight? I only had one truck over there. We, I think we found more freight that went missing years ago.

Caroline: Wow.

Kanon: for our customer. Yeah. Same customer. Yeah. There’s eight additional skids that weren’t on our truckload. Yeah. So [00:23:00] that they were completely unaware of,

Xander: and so now we, I’m working right now on getting a dedicated carrier to get out there and pick up that load. Now the problem is, unfortunately, it’s gonna get a little bit better with who owes the money, but the cost of the product, which is over $300,000, is gonna be way, who would’ve been way worse if we didn’t find it than the cost of transportation that I’m requesting from the warehouse because of their mistake. To get it back to the warehouse in Charlotte, North Carolina, where it needs to be. Being the case, my point, bringing the carrier, that carrier got duped badly. There was a question here that you asked. There’s a mistake that carrier made. didn’t call anybody and you accepted the money because Yeah, it’s an attractive rate, but sitting there in the parking lot, you should have went back in, Hey, this person called me and said it’s changing locations. So that’s where the carrier was at fault. However, I’m still gonna try and get the carrier some money. I’m gonna try and get him, I think the rate that he was given 5,800 bucks with our rate that we it was Jersey to [00:24:00] Charlotte, North Carolina, so it was like 600 miles, so it was 1200, whatever it was. His rate was $5,800. So he drove across. The country is not getting paid. I’m trying to get him something from the insurance company, but even his insurance company won’t protect him on this either. So I would make sure to speak with your insurance companies too, to make sure if you do get double brokered, there is first blanket coverage out there.

Xander: It’s small deductible, but I did figure it out from a really good traveler’s agent I had over at a insurance company who’s been there for 20 years. So I would definitely suggest that. But yeah, that’s my piece on that.

Caroline: That’s super interesting. Can you, I noticed there is a phrase or a term you’re using in it called. Blind shipment. And I think there’s a lot of confusion about what that actually means. Can you explain what a blind shipment, how that actually works? Because I, because it’s so common that people get taken advantage of.

Caroline: ’cause they pretend they know what it means, and then they get [00:25:00] duped.

Xander: Dan’s got this one. He’s good at this

Caroline: Yeah.

Kanon: test one. I’ve dealt with more blind shipments in my lifetime than I would like to. They’re probably my least favorite loads when it’s a legitimate blind load to deal with, just because there’s a lot of extra work involved. So when a blind shipment is done correctly, it can either be. Single blind or double blind, right? So a single blind load, it’ll either be blind to the shipper or blind to the receiver. So on whichever side it’s blind to. And this is because the customer doesn’t want the receiver to know where the product’s coming from or vice versa. So we’ll send an original BOL to the customer for their files.

Kanon: Then we’ll send another BOL usually showing, usually showing a different company address for them or a terminal address, whatever the case may be. A lot of larger companies, they’ll have blind addresses that they use. So that’ll be what’s shown on the blind, DOO. So it can be done legitimately, but when it’s done legitimately, the driver will show up.

Kanon: He’ll know it’s a blind load, and he’ll be given the [00:26:00] blind DOL and he’ll already know. It’s really appearing that it’s going from this place to this place, even though in reality say it’s coming from company X and it’s going z. This BOL is gonna show it’s, coming from B and then still going to Z or vice versa.

Kanon: And then double blinds can get really tricky because then there’s another BOL involved. So think that’s why there’s so much fraud around blind loads is because they’re already complicated in nature, so brokers carriers, they’re seizing the opportunity because a lot of brokers just. A lot of brokers unfortunately don’t know the proper way to run a blind load, and I don’t think a lot of carriers do either. So I think in our case, with this stolen load with our driver that, took the load to California, that was supposed to be going to North Carolina, maybe he never ran a blind load before.

Kanon: So he[00:27:00]

Caroline: Right.

Kanon: So he didn’t know to call. That’s a possibility. I’m not saying that’s what happened, but it is a possibility. If there’s any change in the load at all from what you were booked to do, just call your broker, because call your broker. Confirm with the warehouse. Just cover your bases, right?

Kanon: Be intentional in your work, and then you won’t be, left holding the bag at the end of the day.

Caroline: The key thing to understand here is that. The blindness of the load is for the receiver or the shipper. Not the carrier, not the broker. The broker and carrier always know what the real route is and it a, in a blind shipment. It’s not that you change the destination. Halfway through the work, the destination is always known.

Caroline: The origin is always known by the broker and the carrier. The other thing is that I see sometimes people say it’s a blind [00:28:00] shipment, so that’s why a different carrier’s name is showing on this

Kanon: The carrier name should always remain the same

Caroline: always be the same. There’s no reason that you would have that.

Kanon: Yeah. Blind loads have nothing to do with the carrier. Like you said, it either has to do with the shipper or the receiver. That’s it.

Caroline: And so they should never be obscuring what your company name is, and a broker should never tell you to present yourself as a different company.

Kanon: No, that’s sketchy. Yeah. Yeah, that’s it. That’s a huge red flag for sure.

Xander: I rarely on my bools will put the shipper’s number. If they gimme a contact number. I generally put mine anyway. And I’ll put their name, but it’s still my contact number. It’s just because the more lines of communication you start throwing out, I don’t know what’s

Kanon: Wires can’t get crossed.

Xander: Or wire wires just don’t connect at all.

Xander: And that’s another problem. And, yeah, I like Canon said I can’t stress enough. I know Canon, I smile when I say this because it’s just been crazy dealing with this and it’s finally coming to a good resolution, I [00:29:00] hope. Call your broker, call your, whoever you were booking the load with. would go, I wouldn’t call the Shepherd ’cause that’s backdooring, but at a certain point. If it gets bad, I would even see that as another step as a carrier. Just saying, Hey, I just want to be sure. I don’t wanna talk any rates or anything. I business a live load because there’s a lot of stuff out here. It’s gonna save you a ton of money. You’re not

Kanon: I was gonna say, it’s gonna save your reputation as well, yeah. Carrier reputation is everything in this market right now, and especially with smaller, new carriers, they have to protect their reputation above all else. And any of these carriers that you know, that are watching this podcast and that have been operating for less than a year. I’m not saying, and Xander’s not saying, that there’s no way that you know that they’d be given a shot. ’cause that’s not the case. Caroline, I don’t know how how it would work on this, but I’m more than happy to, to drop, my email. I don’t know if there’s like a comment section or something like that, that’s for small carriers that are looking for a good broker to work with, [00:30:00] to get there. They’re, their company a little bit more established. We’re more than willing to give these guys a shot, but just know that we’re gonna vet them very carefully,

Caroline: yeah.

Xander: also too, we actually have a claims assistant side of our business. It’s X and K logistics. I’m sorry, X and K consulting. We’re working on getting our LLC solidified with all that stuff, with taxes, whatever. But so what I’m offering is too, and what Ken’s offering is we do take on, I know in the past I’ve worked with. Carriers that wanna start sprinter band companies, they need to figure out how to get compliant going through building this entire with Canon, obviously this company, we’ve learned how to do that and we were able to give that information. Same things when it comes to carriers within one year.

Xander: I also would ask carriers to give me a call, shoot me an email

Xander: Podcast and say, Hey. My trucks are here. I get quotes all over the place. I think last week I had to have done at least 23 to 25 quotes a day. We are not really landing a lot of ’em, but again, that’s building those carrier relationships and being asset based.

Xander: Right now, I shy away [00:31:00] from just posting a load up for spot because I don’t want it to go missing right now. I need to, I need another line of defense and that’s gonna be a good carrier. So that’s what I would suggest when it comes to the fraud. If you are listening to this and you are a victim of fraud, email me please.

Xander: I do have a Carolina Task Force. They’re called cargo cats. They are nationwide. They are reaching out to brokers, carriers customers. They’re assisting without charge. They’re charging for the transportation of the trucks if they, you do have a load stolen or so and so forth. However, it’s a service that the California sheriff’s Department as a whole is offering. So it’s cargo cats. You can find more information on F-M-S-C-A. I can also send you some information, Caroline, but,

Caroline: Definitely.

Xander: I’m here to help. I actually, as much as I really had a scary time doing it, I learned a lot and I know a lot of tricks now to make sure you get what you need,

Caroline: yeah, we’ll link all of that, all of those resources that you send me in our description. We also recently had a conversation with our team member [00:32:00] Donovan, who is in charge of investigating these kinds of things and these kinds of cases. I’ll probably. Put that the link to that episode in the description as well.

Caroline: You mentioned earlier about people paying cash for MCs. Let’s talk about that because we have sent multiple messages out to our network, to our customers to say, Hey, if someone is offering you cash for your mc. You’re not going through the proper procedure to get that mc moved to someone else’s name legally, so that it’s no longer yours.

Caroline: You’re gonna be held liable for any actions with that mc, what are you all seeing? We saw this come up a couple of times last year and send out warning messages to our customers, but what have you all seen lately in regards to that scam?

Kanon: yeah, so I’ve seen and the real problem with this, and it just it reflects on the human element of it, is that there, I [00:33:00] forget what the number is, but it’s massive as far as how many trucking companies are closing each week. It’s 360 companies each week. Something like that. So people are they’re preying on desperation, right? And they’re making that number that these companies are, they’re choosing to not go through the proper channels to do it because one, they’re being offered more money, and two, they’re desperate for it because their business is about to close. So they’re preying on that human. Element of, of the, of this. And it’s it’s really sad to see and, I don’t know what message we could put out there, outside of just, just don’t do it because it could come back and, it could be really bad for you.

Kanon: But, outside of that, I, yeah. I’m not sure, what else we can, what else we can put out there to put in the ear of those people that are struggling and, have been approached to, to sell their MCs.

Caroline: Nothing is worth that and it’s it’s easy to say that. I think it’s harder to understand it in the moment, but just [00:34:00] nothing is worth putting Your. Life and freedom at risk for a couple thousand dollars or in the moment. But it again, easier said than done.

Kanon: right.

Kanon: It.

Xander: be prosecuted. Honestly, it is a. Very impactful. I’m sorry. It makes me angry because I’ve been desperate before where I need to make some moves and things like that, but when you start doing something like that you won, you, you will be held liable.

Xander: If I get anybody that does, tries to do that to me, again, I will find you and I will make sure that you pay for what you did because you are affecting a lot of people in this industry. And I feel for the carriers as well with this. And I’ve gotten phone calls, people looking, tracking me down saying Hey, like we booked this load with you.

Xander: And then I gotta get on the phone with DAT and say, Hey, this entity is calling this entity. I, it’s a very impactful mistake is what I’m gonna call it. I don’t think people do it purposely, I think best word can and use there, I like that is panic.

Caroline: Yeah.

Xander: and you’re in trouble, you do things that you normally [00:35:00] wouldn’t. Just like the carrier I got that stole a load back in June. It’s the right thing. The insurance company did the right thing. They, that’s their issue now. But I gave them the proof that they needed to say, Hey, this is straight and simple. It’s not, there’s no nothing else to it.

Xander: There’s a BOL that said he was supposed to go 250 miles, but he drove six miles down the road to his yard and three guys with box trucks showed up, said,

Kanon: It right. Yeah.

Xander: I said, did you get any information? Anything like that? He said, Nope. I said I don’t know if I, did I miss something?

Xander: Why? Why did you do that? And he said, I don’t know, but you have to. You have to figure it out. And that was the last I heard, hung up on me

Caroline: Wow.

Xander: and lost my

Kanon: Yeah.

Xander: and actually put us in a really tough spot.

Kanon: And yeah, just real quick to piggyback also, almost Xander said, just if happens just once, right? If it’s just one mc that gets sold fraudulently. The impact of just that one mc being fraudulent in the market can be huge. They could, they could screw over people for, a hundred grand plus with just one, one [00:36:00] fault e mc,

Caroline: yeah.

Kanon: yeah.

Kanon: That

Caroline: And in the matter of a couple days.

Kanon: Exactly. It’s mad, it’s madness. Yeah.

Caroline: Yeah. Yeah. Let’s not give anybody any ideas.

Kanon: It is not

Caroline: No, it’s definitely not worth it. And so talk to me a little bit about the, we’re recording this as of April 23rd, so this will come out. Later. And so things will have changed by now, but let’s talk about tariffs for a minute.

Caroline: How is that, has that news and that ruckus in the market, has that impacted your business at all yet? And what do you see as the implications of it?

Kanon: Yes, I, yeah, I’ll take this one first. So it, as far as it, IM impacting us yet I wouldn’t say that it is impacted us too much as of right now. I saw something that David Spencer, the the VP of Market Intelligence over at Arrive Logistics regarding tariffs, he said the only certainty for the market seems to be more uncertainty ahead. And I thought that pretty [00:37:00] much encapsulated the whole tariff situation perfectly, just because. The stock markets are scrambling. People are scrambling. People hate to be uncertain, and so that’s why we’re seeing so many ups and downs across so many markets, across the US and across the world. So it. forward. I don’t know when this is gonna come out, and I don’t know what our president is gonna do next. I don’t think anybody does. So it, it is just it’s tough. And a lot of companies with TAR due to the tariffs right now. And due to customer panic, as far as manufacturers go and things like that a lot of them are front loading right now, which has been good for a lot of brokerages because they’re. they’re afraid of spiking right now. Just as far as, tender rates and things like that’s gonna come to an end probably depending on what happens at the end of this 90 day pause or what have you. But the biggest thing is that’s killing people, is just the uncertainty, and I’ve taken the stance of. Yes, it’s uncertain, but the last [00:38:00] thing that, that we should do is panic. So and it’s affecting so much, right? Freight volumes far as contract goes, are down 10%, give or take, year over year. The only really mode that’s surged is flatbed, but the truck to load ratio is 40 to one. We’ll flip that to one to 40, right? So there’s 40 different, tenders available for one one truck. There. Those guys are booming, on flatbeds, but it’s, the capacity is very hard to get right now. So yeah, it’s just, it, it’s a tricky landscape to, especially as brokers to navigate because, our customers are panicking. Spot freight is becoming, less of a thing. Companies are looking more to contract freight, but the pricing of it due to the tariffs is causing issues as far as, or, small carriers going direct, trying to win contact contracts from shippers direct it, it’s causing a lot of strife in those areas because of the uncertainty.

Kanon: [00:39:00] And, people are, even if they haven’t been impacted by the tariffs yet, they think they’re about to be, so therefore they’re expecting, to, they’re expecting to, to. Pay carriers less and charge more for their products, so it, it is something that, that’s impacting Customers are uncertain, brokers are trying to navigate between customers and carriers to make sure that we can get rates and service that are satisfactory for the customers. Yeah it, was speaking with one of our other partners the other day and he was like it’s just best way to explain it is it truly is just like the wild West out here right now.

Caroline: Yeah.

Xander: and I agree. And also too, it’s I really did well in the solar industry and that’s one that’s come to a complete halt in my opinion. There, I think it’s good and it’s bad, I think on the front. Yeah, it’s causing panic. Whenever you get a transition of power, it’s always gonna cause panic because people have to adapt to change. And I. It scares people and obviously costs of goods are going [00:40:00] up, so obviously those margins get thinner. And brokerages that are larger and may maybe mid-size brokerages, they aren’t winning as much. I think they’re more volatile in that situation than brokerages like ourselves

Kanon: I agree.

Xander: to shave expenses,

Kanon: Yeah.

Xander: and ad expenses that are gonna protect us in the long run. Run at thin capacity, maybe get a business loan or something like that. Small, but the mid. To larger size brokerages, depending on your customer base. Are more brokers, there are more three pls coming into the market, which is allowing for more variety of pricing. And that variety, some of these customers are finding.

Xander: Wow, I’m finding a lot less. We had one customer that, they cut us out and it wasn’t because they didn’t like us, it was just because they figured out, Hey, I got better pricing and my bottom line is hurting right now. I think that in my opinion, I think once we start manufacturing goods within the United States, we’re gonna see a boom in truck manufacturing to, I think help with the capacity issues in areas.

Xander: Also, if there’s carriers in Alabama and [00:41:00] Mississippi and Georgia that have flatbeds, I need you guys desperately. I’ve got a fraud check going out in that area. I think there’s four trucks out there making five grand a load. I swear to God they are. But it’s, I just really think that it comes down to, yeah, I it’s tough because the tariffs are, they’re I don’t fully understand them.

Xander: And I read what people are reading are writing on LinkedIn and I think they understand them and I don’t think that they do. So right now, I think that you give it six to eight months, you see where we’re at and. If the I honestly see the market flipping. I see it getting tighter. I see manufacturers building businesses faster and producing more goods within the states, and that’s gonna cause tightness of carriers and it’s gonna flip the market. But that’s just my thing. I’m gonna be prospecting Michigan for auto parts for sure for the next three months as well. But yeah.

Caroline: Good things to keep in mind and maybe it’s a good moment to try flatbed if you haven’t before.

Xander: is

Kanon: A and, yep. That’s [00:42:00] something that I was just gonna say candidly, if you’re looking to get into to this space, buy a flatbed. Yeah. Yeah.

Xander: to Mississippi like tomorrow because it’s gonna be tight for a long time. And that’s just because

Kanon: And then call us. Yeah.

Xander: Then call

Kanon: Yeah.

Xander: But I have a partner that’s actually working a 250 truck project out of there that’s stealing all the capacity, and he is not letting me use any. Yeah, we could use it.

Xander: But

Caroline: What are, yeah, what are the industries that are driving that right now? In the southeast?

Xander: In, in the southeast. When you say industries there, are you like what do you mean?

Caroline: Yeah. What kind of cargo? What are we or what kind of projects I. I guess, is it construction? Is it like, yeah.

Kanon: Yeah.

Xander: it’s it’s heavy steel plates. I believe they’re foundation plates for large facilities warehouses high rises, things like that. But they weigh like 49,000 pounds. They have to have tarps. You can’t use step deck. Some of them are light, like 3,500 pounds, but they’re only 24 feet, but you can’t use a hot shot for

Caroline: How.

Xander: There are just a lot of weird steel loads [00:43:00] out there. I don’t really see any particular commodity flying off the shelves, I guess you could say. It’s really all

Kanon: O on,

Xander: board. We work at a,

Kanon: on, on flatbeds specifically? Yeah. It is a lot of building materials. I have a lot of need for, flat beds that are willing to transport cars right now. Not necessarily the ones that zigzag, but just normal flatbeds that, that would be willing to transport cars in the North Carolina area. And they’re just not available right now. But yeah, building materials is probably the largest, and I assume that it is due to all these companies, moving their offshoring, warehouses inshore,

Caroline: interesting. Super interesting. Can you talk a little bit about the next couple of months, your business? Where do you see it going or the next couple of years? Obviously there’s a lot of uncertainty in the market right now that we just talked about, but what do you hope for the future of your company?

Kanon: Sure. Yeah. So at HTL we thrive in a lot of different modes of [00:44:00] transportation. One of our largest, kind of areas of success right now is in the e-commerce space. And so we’re trying to grow that. There’s not a lot of brokerages out there that can even offer e-commerce shipping capabilities ’cause they don’t want to deal with it because it’s typically very low margins, things like that.

Kanon: And also UPS, FedEx, they don’t really work in that way, especially now with larger brokerages. We found a way to capitalize on that. We’re gonna try and expand into final mile. We’re expanding into drayage right now. Warehousing is a really big one just ’cause we have a lot of warehousing capacity across the us. So that’s, I. Next six months. Those are, kind of our focus items. Outside of that, just growing our team. Right now we’ve got probably about 10 people including us on our team in different areas. Steady growth solid relationships especially with carriers, especially with smaller carriers where smaller business, it, collaborative growth is huge.

Kanon: If you can have a partnership. As a small brokerage with a smaller carrier, and you two can grow together, that’s a [00:45:00] relationship that will last forever. So that’s really what we try and instill, not only with our carriers, with our customers as well.

Xander: Yeah. And entities. They should be working together. And as a small company, I remember when I first started, it’s a great story. It’s very long, but it’s a long story short it was the hardest thing like proving to people like, yeah, I’m a real broker. I’m the real deal. Where do you work?

Xander: I. I’m sitting in my pajamas right now, like trying to book some freight, man. I don’t know what you want from me. I’m a broker. I can’t tell you that I’m gonna do a great job at this for you, but I’m gonna do the best that I can and you will get paid. Aren’t those the two things that matter?

Xander: And I’ve had that conversation a million times. And again, wrapping that back into, what can was talking about relationships and partnerships and growth, I think that’s a big word that Canon used that we’re really excited about. We’ve brought on about five commission-based reps that have logistics experience, and that’s straight through just recruiting, messaging people on LinkedIn Sales Navigator and offering that commission. Passive income really. We take referrals. It’s [00:46:00] really hey, did you used to work in the logistics industry? And I’m sure there are carriers that would actually like to reach out about this, which I actually just brought one on the other day. He is great guy box truck guy up in Michigan.

Xander: He’s gonna try and broker some freight with us. And I’ve got a good 10,000 leads with broker intent, so I’m not shooting you leads that are cold. I’ve actually personally picked those leads out. I’m looking for reps. I’m looking for people that are interested in either learning about the logistics industry.

Xander: I am currently and we are currently working with interns outta the Philippines that we’ve actually been training and showing the logistics industry to give them a potential great career. The money that we pay them is a big difference to what they’re able to make in the Philippines. We’re allowing them to help their families, but at the same time build something that will forever be lucrative. The growth is gonna continue even further. When we get back from vacation, which I’m very excited about, much needed with this industry. When we get back from vacation it’s sitting down with this team and saying, Hey, this is the starting line. This is where set, settle back in.

Xander: We dig in and we just try and pick up as many customers [00:47:00] as we can. We’re gonna lose some, we’re going to, gain a bunch, but, maybe more reps. I don’t think that we really would get bigger than 20. I think it gets too complicated. A company bigger than 20, you lose track of what’s important. Every, I make probably 35 to 50 fo cold calls a day. I’m fibbing a little, but it’s hard to do those. But I talk to the same people and they’re like, a company of 15 and Cheryl’s at the front, and they all sit in the same room. And when they tell me, oh, we don’t ship, I’m like, oh, that’s crazy. There’s a. Truck door on the side of your building.

Xander: So who does? It’s getting creative growing, and creating those partnerships and making sure that they’re solid ones where you can trust somebody. On the flip of a dime,

Caroline: Awesome. Any final advice that you have for small carriers and new carriers navigating the world of trucking? In 2025.

Xander: if it smells fishy, it’s fishy. If it smells fishy, if it’s fishy, do not. Change any bools, don’t tech don’t change. Don’t accept any blind shipments. Nothing. Even if your mom calls you and tells you, Hey, you need to go this way, don’t do it. You need to call your [00:48:00] broker. Make sure that you are covered.

Xander: And then my last thing was check your insurance. Make sure you have that blanket. That’s, those are the two most important things that will save your butt. It saved mine twice,

Caroline: awesome.

Kanon: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Caroline: All right. Thank you so much, Canon and Xander for joining us on this weekend. Trekking really enjoyed talking to you, learned a lot some crazy stories and I think people will get a lot out of this. So I appreciate you coming on.

Kanon: Yeah. Yeah, of course. Thanks Caroline. Appreciate you as well.

Caroline: All right. Drive safe everybody.

Kanon: thanks.