Matt Planeta (00:00.16)

Caroline (00:00.453)
Welcome to this week in trucking. I’m Caroline. Today I’m really excited to have Matt Planetta, Vice President of Heffernan Insurance Brokers with us today to talk everything about insurance, commercial insurance for trucking businesses and how you can save money.

on those insurance bills. Matt, thanks so much for joining us.

Matt Planeta (00:30.926)
for having me, Caroline, I appreciate it.

Caroline (00:32.847)
Tell me, how did you get into this business of insuring trucking businesses?

Matt Planeta (00:37.806)
So like most people, think in the insurance business, I kind of accidentally stumbled into it. I’m actually a third generation insurance broker. My grandpa started a truck insurance agency back in the eighties. And then my uncle took over for him when he was ready to retire. And I was going to school and I got working for my finance degree and started working part-time in the agency and answering phones and taking the trash out and picking up the mail and all that kind of stuff.

I actually really enjoyed it and ended up staying with it and I’ve been doing it for over 20 years now.

Caroline (01:12.367)
Wow, think stumbling into it might be the wrong phrase, maybe being born into it, it sounds like.

Matt Planeta (01:18.454)
Yeah, I was born into it, nobody grows up saying I want to be in insurance.

Caroline (01:22.981)
Yeah, sure. Have you always done trucking insurance? Has that always been the area that you’re in, and how has that changed over the time that you’ve been doing it?

Matt Planeta (01:39.023)
Good question. So yes, I have always done transportation insurance. So it’s just kind of the niche that we started in. So when my grandpa, before he started the agency, he actually worked for a truck insurance company. So he had clients became friends throughout all the years and everything else that he grew close to, knew.

Caroline (01:53.829)
Mm.

Matt Planeta (02:01.964)
the business from both the trucking side of it and the insurance side of it and felt like there was a need on the opening on the broker side. So he split off from there, started his own brokerage and we’ve always done trucking, always done transportation. We’ve expanded a little bit.

on that so we do courier type business, straight trucks, anything with wheels that’s a delivery type of business, we’ll usually write that. So that was kind how it all started and like I said, that was in the mid 80s and we’re still going at it.

Caroline (02:33.551)
Take me through the experience of a carrier trying to get insurance for the first time, even despite all of the uncertainty and the volatility that the trucking market has seen. There’s still a lot of people out there starting businesses, because there’s still need, right? Literally, if you sell anything physical, it has to go on a truck. So there’s still a lot of money to be made in trucking. Tell me about how…

I should approach getting insurance for my carrier business if I’m starting a business in 2025.

Matt Planeta (03:09.934)
So you you’re exactly right. Anything, I tell people all the time, anything that is purchased, that’s on a shelf, that’s at a store, at a restaurant, anything that you’re purchasing was ultimately on a truck at some point. So it is critical and it’s always gonna be around, there’s always gonna be a need for it. To goes with that, obviously is the insurance. So if somebody was starting a company, understanding who…

you know, who they’re working for, the commodities that they’re hauling, the ins and outs of their unique trucking company, and being able to communicate that with their insurance broker. Because it is such a large expense and a large line item for them, especially starting off when they don’t have a history to show, you know, good claims history, that kind of stuff to get the better rates, being able to show as much as they can up front that they understand what they’re doing.

that they are safe, that they’re a safe driver, that they can run and manage a profitable company and a safe company. The better that they can picture that upfront to an underwriter, the better terms, better rates that they’re gonna get when they’re starting off.

Caroline (04:18.127)
Bring me into those details. What specifically are you looking for when a new trucking business is trying to get insurance?

Matt Planeta (04:26.968)
Okay, so with a new company, Underwriters are gonna look at, one, they’re gonna start off with the driving records. What do the MVRs look like? If it’s a single unit owner operator, what does that MVR look like? Because that’s gonna show the driving history.

Caroline (04:42.467)
And MVR is Motor Vehicle Record, right?

Matt Planeta (04:44.63)
Motor vehicle record, correct. Correct. Yep. So it’s going to show a three year history of the motor vehicle record, similar to what you are in your personal vehicle. They’re going to want to see that. Also, they’re going to want to see, they’re going to pull what’s called a pre-employment screening or a PSP. And they’re going to see, they want to see what the roadside inspections have been for that driver previously, if they’ve worked for somebody else. They want to see a work history. So you’re splitting off on their own as a new company. Do they have contracts? Do they know?

who they’re working with, or are they just gonna go on the spot market and they’re just gonna pick up a load from here to get to here, and then they have no idea how they’re gonna get from.

that point to the next point and just kind of figure it out as they go? Or do they already have relationships with the customers and they know, I’m going to be hauling similar products through regular routes, that kind of stuff where there’s those controls that are in place. So I think that that’s the biggest thing is being able to show one, that they know what they’re doing, and then two, that they have the history on the driving that they are a safe driver.

Caroline (05:23.353)
Mmm.

Caroline (05:45.857)
That’s interesting because I’ve heard a lot about driving records and how important that is that even if you bring on a new driver, you know, don’t give them the offer until you’ve sent their information to your insurance broker and make sure you can afford to insure them. So driving record, super important. Obviously if the company already has a history, the safety history of that company, I didn’t know that you also look at.

Matt Planeta (05:59.969)
100%.

Caroline (06:14.565)
who their customers are going to be. Talk about that. Why is that part important to bring to your insurance broker?

Matt Planeta (06:23.15)
So to me it’s important because so in the communication between the trucking company and the insurance broker and the insurance underwriter is really, really important.

To me, I like to be able to talk to the trucking company and understand all those details that we talked about, know, who they’re hauling for, where they’re going, are they running during the day, are they running at night, is it running the same routes? The more information that I have, the better picture that I can paint to an underwriter because to an underwriter, they may be getting multiple, multiple submissions that look the same on paper. They’re one truck, they’re two trucks, they’re hauling general freight, but they don’t really know what they’re hauling and they’re running.

and unlimited radius, which doesn’t really tell them anything. So I want to make sure that when that particular trucking company comes across the desk for an underwriter, they can look at all of that and they understand exactly what it is that they’re underwriting.

because generally if they don’t understand something, they’re going to err on the side of caution, which means more premium, more costs to the tracking company. So the little bit of work that we can do upfront to paint exactly the picture that they’re going to be underwriting and covering on the insurance policy, the better terms, the better pricing that we’re going to get with that little bit of work upfront.

Caroline (07:44.367)
Business owners like to be prepared. Small business owners always know that they have to be prepared. What does that preparation look like when I’m going to work with an insurance broker? What kind of information or documentation do I need about my customers? it letters of support from my customers? Or is it just a business plan with customers or load boards or regions that I’ve worked out are the best opportunities for me?

Matt Planeta (08:10.606)
I think the letters of support always help, but that’s not always easy to get. So more than anything, it’s just the details of, you know, I’ve worked with this company or these companies for X amount of time. I know where I’m picking up. I know where I’m delivering. I know the product. I know how to secure the product. Whatever it is that goes into that safe operation for that customer, those are the details that I need to be able to express to an underwriter so that they get comfortable with it.

Caroline (08:13.541)
Mmm.

Caroline (08:40.485)
I know some different types of freight require different types of insurance. Some of the more commonly known ones are maybe oversized or overweight. Reefers requires a specific type of interchange insurance. What are some of the commodity types or the types of freight that people don’t think necessarily think about?

for special insurance and end up, because I know some people will get into situations where they’re hauling something that they didn’t know they needed special insurance.

Matt Planeta (09:12.205)
So.

Matt Planeta (09:17.998)
Correct, correct. Yeah, and a lot of times, and to your point, you’re exactly right, they’ll say, well, I’m just gonna haul General Fright and have no idea what General Fright could be. I mean, it could be groceries one day, could be dry goods, dry groceries one day, could be paper another day, or it could be a load that they pick up and it has batteries in it.

and it has enough batteries that now it’s classified as hazmat because there’s enough batteries that it’s considered as hazardous and they don’t have the right hazmat endorsement on their license. They don’t have the right insurance limits in place on the insurance. They’re only carrying, let’s say, 750,000, but because it’s hazmat now they’re required to carry a million and they don’t have the right limits. there are certain situations where they get into something like that and they don’t

Caroline (09:47.673)
Mmm.

Matt Planeta (10:05.8)
know what they’re getting into or an oversized overweight load. You know, they have a general hundred thousand limit on their cargo insurance, but they’re going to haul a piece of equipment that’s worth five hundred thousand. So now they don’t have the right insurance to cover that piece of equipment that they’re looking to haul.

Caroline (10:17.284)
Mmm.

Caroline (10:23.129)
Let’s talk about cost for a minute. How much generally, let’s say I’m going to do non-specialized, non-has-mat, sort of general freight, which is probably the wrong term to use. We might need to stop using that term so much because general freight isn’t always just general anything. If I’m getting into the business for the first time, let’s say I have clean MBR, but I haven’t owned a company yet.

before I’m starting my trucking business. Let’s say I have a dry van. How much is it gonna cost me to ensure my business? Let’s say I’ve been driving for like 10 years.

Matt Planeta (11:02.83)
So.

driving like 10 years, clean record, good equipment, everything looks good, but you’re just starting off on your own. So depending on where you’re at in the country, obviously there’s some parts of the country that are gonna be less than other parts. If I’m just starting in California versus just starting in Nebraska, it’s gonna be two different rates that you’re looking at. If you’re looking at just ballpark numbers, usually I would…

Caroline (11:22.915)
Mmm.

Matt Planeta (11:30.03)
I would tell people that I would expect to pay anywhere from like the 15,000 range as a new company starting off with auto liability, the cargo, the physical damage, depending on the value of your equipment, general liability. So the base coverages that you’re going to ballpark is tough again, depending on where you’re at and stuff like that. But usually about 15,000 is a safe bet on there.

Caroline (11:56.579)
And that’s annual. How much of that do I need to pay upfront? Can I pay it monthly? How does that

Matt Planeta (11:58.284)
annual credit.

Matt Planeta (12:02.83)
depending on the insurance company that you go with. Some of them offer monthly plans. Some of them will offer like a 25 % and a nine monthly payment or a 10 monthly payment. Generally speaking, you’re looking at like a 25 to 35 % down payment. And a lot of those are going to have to be financed through a finance company. So then you’re looking at probably nine or 10 monthly payments after the down payment. And there’s the interest that’s charged by the finance company on top of that on those monthly payments.

Caroline (12:32.601)
generally around 15,000. Let’s talk about how the different levers of that can push that price up or bring that price down. We’ve already talked about MVR, so obviously having a clean record helps. If you have more on your record, that price is gonna go up. Would you say that’s the number one factor? Is that the biggest multiplier of cost? Is the driving record?

Matt Planeta (12:55.662)
I would say especially on the small one truck, one single unit owner operator, that driving record is generally looked at as the largest predictor of future claims, especially if they’re just starting off where they don’t have a claims history that they can look at. I would say that that driving record is probably the most scrutinized and has the biggest impact on the rates that they’re gonna get up front.

Caroline (13:11.684)
Hmm.

Caroline (13:21.357)
And then you talked about location. So where you are in the country can make a difference. Does it matter even county by county or city by city? I know for my car insurance, for example, it’s more expensive for me to ensure my car in the city versus out in the country.

Matt Planeta (13:39.375)
Correct, correct. And it may not be as significant as on the personal insurance, but it absolutely does. if I am, just as an example, if I’m in Texas and I’m in the Houston area versus I’m in Texas and I’m in West Texas, you know, where there’s small towns and not nearly the same population, congestion, theft, that kind of thing that goes along with the metro areas, it does make a difference. And again, that’s part of the communication between

the trucking company, the owner and the broker and the underwriter making sure that they understand exactly what it is that the exposure is and the operation is. And so that’s communicated directly to the underwriter so they know exactly what they’re looking at and they can price it accordingly.

Caroline (14:24.485)
Sure. We’ve talked about driving record, location. Let’s talk about the type of equipment that people have. So if I have a dry van, CDL truck or box truck, hotshot, how did these different equipment types get priced out? Does that make a big difference in the price?

Matt Planeta (14:49.07)
Probably the biggest difference would be between the tractor trailer and a box truck. Generally the box truck is gonna be less on the liability and then it’s gonna be less on the physical damage because the values aren’t the same on a box truck or a straight truck versus a tractor trailer. And they’re usually run in a shorter radius, that kind of thing. So those will usually cost less money from an insurance standpoint upfront than a tractor trailer. One thing on the duallys,

The Duallys usually will get rated similar to like what a box truck would be, even though it’s a smaller pickup truck because of what they’re doing, they’re going, what they’re hauling, that kind of stuff. And they’re operating similar to a trucking company. Those actually get rated about the same as what you would see on like a box truck or a tractor trailer.

Caroline (15:35.557)
I see. So tractor trailer would be the most expensive because it can sort of do the most damage and haul the most freight. Is that kind of the idea?

Matt Planeta (15:43.225)
Correct, got the most freight and then it’s the hardest to drive. mean, there’s some box trucks, straight trucks that you could actually drive without the CDO. So yeah, mean, it generally higher claims on the tractor trailer, therefore the insurance costs more.

Caroline (16:00.207)
Sure. All right, we’ve talked about type of equipment, location and routes. So it sounds like it’s not just where the truck is stored when you’re at home, but also what routes you’re going, how far you’re going if you’re going across the country versus just in the state versus just local and driving record and safety. Are we missing any of the main factors that go into the cost of insurance when starting a new trucking business?

Matt Planeta (16:26.894)
I think the only other thing that I can think of on the insurance, like you said, it’s the drivers, it’s the equipment, it’s what you’re hauling, and it’s where you’re going. And then, like you said, the radius of how are you short haul, long haul, medium haul. And then the only thing I think we’ve touched on a little bit is just the consistency of those hauls too.

Caroline (16:52.005)
Mmm.

Matt Planeta (16:52.968)
Am I running, if I can show that I’m running a regular route and regular commodities, it’s generally gonna cost a little bit less on the insurance because the underwriters know that you have a comfort level with what you’re doing. Anytime that a driver is in a situation where they’re not familiar with the docs, they’re not familiar with the warehouse, they’re not familiar with all of that stuff, tends to lead to a higher frequency of claims. So.

the uncertainty on the operation increases the cost because they’re going to build that cushion in there knowing that there’s a higher chance of them having a claim in those situations where they’re not comfortable.

Caroline (17:35.885)
Right. More is likely to go wrong when you’re doing something new or something for the first time. Right.

Matt Planeta (17:41.017)
Correct, correct. And similar to like if you’re driving your personal vehicle, if you’re comfortable with where you’re going, you’ve been there before, you know where you’re going, it’s a lot easier, especially, you know, like getting back to the trucking side. If I’m at a warehouse that I’ve never been to before and there’s a lot of other traffic there, a lot of trucks and trailers that are either picking up or delivering, there’s a higher likelihood that I’m going to have a claim because I don’t know exactly where I’m going to go to pick up the load or deliver the load.

Caroline (17:59.322)
Mm.

Matt Planeta (18:08.834)
versus, yeah, I’ve been here before. I know I gotta go to this dock and it’s one way around this corner and I have to go check in at the guard shack or whatever it is. Just that comfort level of understanding how that works decreases the risk of having a claim. Plus, I mean, anytime that a driver feels the stress or the pressure or the uncomfort, then they tend to get in a hurry, which leads to more claims as well.

Caroline (18:21.21)
Right.

Caroline (18:32.229)
Right, right. Probably the same goes for the type of freight too, I imagine. So if you’re used to hauling ice cream and you’re an expert at hauling ice cream, which is probably really complicated to haul because you have to keep it at a certain temperature and all of that, right? But if you are really consistent, you know that that’s what you haul all the time, then your insurance company is going to be more comfortable insuring you as opposed to someone who sometimes hauls.

produce and sometimes hauls electronics and sometimes hauls clothing.

Matt Planeta (19:07.906)
Correct. Yep. Yeah. And if you’re switching between just like you said between commodities or equipment types, I mean, there’s some people that will haul drive in or reefer trailers for part of the year and then they’re going to run flatbeds for part of the year. And there’s two totally different exposures, totally different ways of driving. Load securement is completely different between them. There’s a lot of different factors that come into play. So you’re right. mean.

understanding exactly what it is that you’re hauling. And if it’s a reefer load, then I know I got it, you know, especially if it’s fruits or vegetables and, you know, there’s checking the temperatures before it gets loaded during the transit and when it gets offloaded and then the documentation that it was within those temperature ranges. So there’s lots of nuances just in each one of those segments of trucking.

Caroline (19:55.493)
Every time I talk to someone new on this show, a new complication comes in. So in the past, I’ve talked to people about how to build a successful trekking business. And one of the things that I’ve heard from a couple of different people is diversify, have different equipment types, be able to go different places, take advantage of the opportunities. And then other people will say, specialize.

Matt Planeta (20:00.47)
Yes.

Matt Planeta (20:18.318)
Thanks.

Caroline (20:20.089)
You want to specialize, you want to be the person that does this in trucking. I am the person that hauls ice cream from Florida to, I don’t know, Maine. That’s a really bad example. Don’t do that. Don’t look for loads like that. But some people say specialize, some people say diversify. It sounds like specializing might be a

Matt Planeta (20:35.32)
Mm-hmm.

Caroline (20:47.865)
better way in terms of insurance. So if you’re worried about insurance rates going up, specializing can actually be a way that you might be able to control some of that cost.

Matt Planeta (20:59.434)
Yeah, I think so. especially starting off, especially starting off once you have established yourself and then you want to expand into something else. like your example, if you’re running reefer loads, but you have an opportunity to run flatbed for a certain customer or a certain time of year.

Caroline (21:02.117)
Mm.

Matt Planeta (21:19.67)
and you can show that you have the one under control. This is what we do. We’re gonna take those same safety principles, practices, driving behaviors, expectations that we have in hauling reefer, and now we’re just gonna haul flatbed for this commodity. We’re gonna deliver certain freight. We’re gonna backhaul another freight because it makes sense. So I think, like you said, making sure when you start off, if you can…

narrow that scope into what exactly you do and then you want to diversify down the road that’s you got a better chance of doing it there if you’re going to be a little bit of everything up front you’re probably going to be paying more in insurance because again it’s the unknowns and then one thing i meant to point out earlier too we were talking about the drivers if you’re starting with a new a new company and you’re a single unit owner operator and it’s just your company you’re the driver your driver record everything else

Caroline (22:00.453)
Right. Yeah.

Matt Planeta (22:16.652)
That is a lot better than a lot of times the people will start off with that and then they add a second truck and a second driver. And the cost to add that second truck and that second driver generally is a lot more expensive than what they’re paying when they’re just a single unit owner operator. And again, it’s because of the unknown where it’s your company, you’re the driver, you have control of everything.

there’s a lot more comfort level from an underwriting perspective than hiring that second driver because now you don’t have control over that truck and that driver and they’re gonna make their own decisions. So the cost per truck for one generally is not the same as adding a second truck, a third truck, a fourth truck until you can get into 10 or more trucks where you become a fleet and they’re gonna underwrite the whole fleet, not the individual drivers.

Caroline (23:04.537)
Hmm. I see. So there’s a little bit of growing pains there then, because most of the time people aren’t going from one truck to 10 right away, right? Usually you’re kind of like building it up, but maybe it makes sense then in the beginning, just to start with one, one truck, one driver, and then establish a really good track record. And then it’ll be more affordable for you to add other drivers to that.

Matt Planeta (23:13.176)
Correct. Correct, yep.

Matt Planeta (23:29.454)
Correct. Yeah, the controlled growth and then like you said, more established it, control it, and more of a long-term plan than jumping straight into from one truck to 30 trucks.

Caroline (23:42.595)
What about team drivers? Like having two drivers in the same truck, is that a benefit, a drawback, kind of the same?

Matt Planeta (23:50.959)
That’s a good question. So a lot of the underwriters, a lot of some of the companies don’t like the team driving. Some of them don’t mind it. So the question that I always get when it comes to team driving is, so who’s driving?

Caroline (23:57.061)
Mmm.

Matt Planeta (24:06.434)
When one driver’s driving and they’re off duty and the other driver’s driving, are they actually going to be in the sleeper? Are they actually getting the rest that they need? Or a lot of times on team driving, one is kind of the trainer and one is the trainee. And then if that’s the case, then whoever the trainer is, when are they actually getting their rest when they’re not driving? So yeah, so that one varies a little bit. So it kind of depends on.

Caroline (24:19.993)
Mmm.

Caroline (24:25.381)
their rest. Interesting.

Caroline (24:31.917)
Yeah, how would you prove that to an insurance company? it like the history, like both of them should have a similar amount of experience driving?

Matt Planeta (24:35.491)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Planeta (24:41.55)
Yeah, if they have a similar amount of experience driving, that helps. And then also just in general, when they go to rate it, they generally will rate.

a tractor trailer, a vehicle that’s going to be team driven will generally cost more in an insurance than somebody that is just a solo driver. Again, it’s going to come down to the utilization. They’re going to run more miles and therefore they’re going to be on the road. There’s more risk of them having a claim because they’re running more miles and on the road more often. So just strictly the insurance cost upfront for team driving is going to be more expensive than a single unit driver or a single driver on a tractor trailer.

Caroline (25:21.473)
interesting because I would think it would be the opposite because you have an extra driver there that can take over. It seems like it would be safer to have another driver in the vehicle.

Matt Planeta (25:28.302)
But there.

Right, but from the underwriters, they’re going to argue, you know, the hours of service or the fact that if they’re compliant with the hours of service, then they should be getting their rest time and their time non-driving or whatever the record duty status is at that point to control that, you know, driving while they’re fatigued. But obviously, fatigued driving is a huge issue from not just the trucking, just in general.

So again, the hours, it kind of gets back to what we were talking about earlier with the compliance. And if there’s issues with an hours of service score on somebody’s SMS score, then generally it’s going to be red flags and it’s going to cost more in premium going forward too.

Caroline (26:12.517)
So let’s say, tractor trailer, between maybe 15 and 20,000 a year for a box truck. How much would it cost generally?

Matt Planeta (26:23.906)
Generally on a box truck I would say probably somewhere maybe in like the 10 to 15 thousand range somewhere in there So maybe you know two-thirds of the cost of a tractor trailer

Caroline (26:35.759)
Right. And then of course, with the caveat of all of these factors that we’re talking about. Right. Right. I’ve even heard people trying to get insured for a new company that are seeing like 30 to $33,000 a year. What does someone’s profile look like that gets a quote like that?

Matt Planeta (26:39.35)
Right, right. All the variables, yeah.

Matt Planeta (26:57.006)
Some of it is either they have a driving record that dictates that they don’t have the experience to show that they have driven the tractor trailer, that they know what they’re doing, all that kind of stuff that we talked about earlier where they can show that they’re just going be doing it on their own and not driving for somebody else at this point. And some of it is beyond their control. Some of it is just because of where they’re operating at.

Caroline (27:05.028)
Hmm.

Matt Planeta (27:23.936)
So, I mean, if I’m a new venture, single unit owner operator, and again, I’m in Southern California, I’m gonna be paying 30 or $40,000 a year. If I’m doing that same operation and I’m in the Midwest or something like that, where there’s less traffic and everything else, less chance of a claim, I mean, that truly could be half of that cost, a third of that cost.

Caroline (27:50.309)
Wow. Okay, let’s talk about once I’m operating and I’ve been paying my insurance, I’ve been paying it on time. And I think that I’ve been doing pretty well, but then all of a sudden my renewal comes around and it’s 50 % higher. I’ve heard a lot of people that a lot of the carriers that go out of business is because they just can’t afford the insurance anymore. And it’s not always

cashflow, it’s not, I mean, it is cashflow because you can’t pay the $40,000 bill, but it’s not the sort of cashflow problems that we think of month to month. It’s more like these huge surprises that happen. Tell me about the people that you’ve worked with and some of the situations that you’ve seen where renewals are just astronomical and what is the cause behind that?

Matt Planeta (28:41.718)
Yeah, unfortunately that does happen. seems like it happens more often now than it used to where you get just huge swings in premium. And I always try and explain to my clients, like there’s two factors that go into it. There’s the factors that you can control.

which is all the stuff that we’re talking about. It’s the driving record, it’s being safe, it’s controlling your claims, it’s running, maintaining your vehicles so you don’t have maintenance issues, that kind of stuff. You can control all of that stuff. Some of the stuff you can’t control. Some of it…

they, you whether it’s the base rates, the rates that the insurance company is going to file for everybody is increasing right now, whether you’re good, bad, or indifferent. I mean, it’s, going up. The cost of insurance is going up in general. So you can’t control that. So you control what you can control and the cost of the insurance going up in general. mean, that’s because the cost of equipment.

is gone up. the physical damage, you if a tractor trailer is totaled, what used to be maybe like an $80,000 claim is now $140,000 claim. Or the cargo where it used to be $100,000 was kind of the standard on the cargo limit that was required. seeing, you know, 150, 200, 250,000 for drive freight.

refer commodities, like that. it’s just because again, the cost of goods has gotten up. So if there’s a total cargo loss, now we have $150,000 cargo loss. If you’re looking at on the liability side between nuclear verdicts, just the cost of those in the lawsuits that happen on the liability side, the cost of those claims has gone up quite a bit over the last few years. And so.

Matt Planeta (30:28.366)
Getting back to what I was first talking about, you control what you control. Some of that stuff, they can’t control that. As an owner operator, you can’t control what’s happening on the industry. So you can have the pricing pressures to increase it because of what’s going on on the macro level. So all that you can do is control what you can within your company and your operation.

Caroline (30:49.463)
What are some of the main mistakes that you see carriers making that leads to these higher insurance premiums of things that they can control?

Matt Planeta (30:58.68)
think one of the biggest things I see right now is not paying attention to the compliance side of it. So their SMS scores with the DOT, all of a sudden they get into an alert in one or two of the basic categories and that directly impacts the insurance premiums that they’re paying. And significantly right now the insurance companies are looking at that closely because, and they look at that,

as somebody, as their compliance gets worse and they get an alert or two on their SMS, the cost to defend them in a claim goes up. Therefore, the insurance premiums upfront go up for somebody that has issues with that. So I always try to tell people that if you can pay attention to that and you can control that side of it, that’s going to have a direct impact on the insurance premiums that you’re paying.

Caroline (31:49.455)
Define some of these acronyms. You’ve talked about SMS. I think you were talking about CSA scores when you come to basics. Explain what all those things mean really quick.

Matt Planeta (31:55.871)
Sorry about that. So SMS stands for the Safety Maintenance Score. And it’s basically your roadside inspections. You know, get law enforcement roadside inspections and they’re going to check for compliance with the FMCSA regulations. CSA is basically the program that the federal government uses to rate different carriers and compare them against each other.

and then the insurance underwriters have access to that information and they’ll pull reports and they can see what those scores are for the motor carriers. So they can see what the roadside inspections look like. They can see how they score against other motor carriers that are in similar categories to what they are.

Caroline (32:41.367)
Now that’s for CDL vehicles, commercial vehicles. Do those same principles apply to box truck operations?

Matt Planeta (32:49.87)
If the box truck is running under a DOT number, then it would be the same. It would be slightly different because they don’t have the CDL requirement and stuff like that. But if they’re running under a DOT number, they’re still regulated by the Department of Transportation.

Caroline (33:06.649)
Gotcha. So it’s basically the mistake is not paying attention to those scores until it’s too late.

Matt Planeta (33:11.25)
Correct. Yep, exactly. Not understanding the impact that those scores have on them. So like you said, until it’s too late, until renewal time comes, and there’s a huge increase in premium, and that’s used as the justification for the increase in premium.

Caroline (33:25.669)
Even though the increase in premium may have come from a bunch of other things as well, it’s sort of that’s what the insurance company can cite as something that is under your control that, okay, now this is the reason why this is going up.

Matt Planeta (33:29.998)
Correct.

Matt Planeta (33:36.687)
Correct. Yep, exactly. Exactly. And that goes the other way too. So if everything looks good on your compliance side of everything, your driving record looks good, your DOT scores look good, everything looks good, actually gives you some argument going back against an insurance company that’s trying to get a huge rate increase and say, look, this is a good risk for you as an underwriter.

Caroline (33:55.941)
Mmm.

Matt Planeta (34:02.348)
the equipment is good, the driver’s good, we have a history, compliance, roadside compliance is good, and we can stack all of these facts on why they’re a good risk and go back and push against underwriters to try and soften that increase if it’s presented at renewal time.

Caroline (34:21.089)
Okay. So this is something new that I am just learning that there is actually some kind of recourse for when you get a renewal price and it’s really high. There is some negotiation that can happen between the carrier and that the broker can help to facilitate. Is that what I’m understanding?

Matt Planeta (34:40.59)
Correct, depending on who the carrier is. So some of them, it’s strictly just a rating module and I don’t deal with me as the broker. I don’t deal with an underwriter. It’s just the information goes in and it spits out a number coming back out. Other companies, deal directly with an underwriter.

Caroline (34:53.583)
Got it.

Matt Planeta (34:57.966)
and say, I can have those conversations just like we talked about, you know, this is, this is what it looks like on paper. This is all the benefits. You know, these are all, all of the good things that this motor carrier is doing. This is why, you know, they don’t deserve the same rate that trucking company ABC does because they’re unsafe. Look at, you know, this is all the, all the information on them and why they’re unsafe. This company is safe and they deserve a better rate.

Caroline (35:22.935)
see. Is that kind of negotiation, is that even possible for someone with a really small fleet or just one truck? Or is that more for larger fleets, really?

Matt Planeta (35:33.231)
Absolutely, yeah. No, that’s even, yeah, even on the one truck. mean, your scales may not be the same, you know, because you’re looking at premiums for the one truck, but it doesn’t change from the cost for the one truck versus the cost for 200 trucks. I mean, it’s still an expense per truck that you’re still trying to control and remain profitable. But as a single unit owner-operator, absolutely, it’s the same conversations that you can have.

Caroline (36:02.373)
Cool. How are insurance? go ahead.

Matt Planeta (36:04.622)
And I think that’s the benefit of working with, I’m sorry, I gonna say, I think that’s the benefit of working with an insurance broker that truly understands what the compliance is and how that directly impacts the rates. If it’s an insurance broker that doesn’t really do any kind of trucking, then they may not understand what those scores mean and then how they relate to the premiums that are charged.

Caroline (36:29.209)
Would you recommend that people, every time that they get a renewal or they’re getting insurance for the first time, how many different quotes and different companies should I be getting quotes from to shop around?

Matt Planeta (36:44.494)
That’s a good question. So to start off with, would probably get, I would at least get a few to just to see, to compare, compare premiums, compare coverages, because there is a discrepancy. There’s a big, there’s a wide range on both premiums and coverages. mean, something may look good on paper. You’re like, oh, this, this quote is, you know, X amount of dollars less in premium. I want to go with this one. Not understanding that it’s.

that much cheaper because they’re not giving you the coverages that you need. especially upfront, think getting a few different options, a few different quotes to look at is important. As you become established, if you are getting the coverages that you need and you’re with a good carrier,

Shopping it every year is not to your advantage because underwriters see the same account every year and they know that they’re just going to shop it and you’re not necessarily going to get their best look or their best pricing if they see the account every year. I usually, unless there’s a reason why, whether it’s a significant increase or a in coverage, something like that, that trigger it, I don’t think it makes sense to shop it every year if you’re happy with what you have.

Caroline (37:33.625)
Hmm.

Caroline (37:55.021)
I see. So it’s not really to my benefit to shop around and try to get a lower rate just because I think I might be able to get a lower rate.

Matt Planeta (38:07.874)
necessarily, I mean, generally that’s not necessarily to your benefit. if you, mean, because there are some companies that are, that would be maybe not as preferred as some of other truck insurance companies. So if I’m with one of those lower tier companies and I’m paying more in premium, then absolutely when it comes up for renewal, will.

I would absolutely shop that and see if I can get to one of the better companies that offers better pricing, better coverage, better service, all of that in the package with more value for the premium that you’re paying.

Caroline (38:39.481)
Because some insurance companies won’t insure new ventures, right? And they’ll only insure people with experience. So once you hit that, what is that marker? Is it just the first year? Is it first five years? When I first start my business and get insured, what’s the milestone when I should look for a new insurance?

Matt Planeta (38:43.726)
Correct. Correct.

Matt Planeta (38:57.482)
I mean, usually they want to see two years, at least two years in business, but it doesn’t hurt. I made it through the first year and I can show that and I feel like my premiums are really high and I can improve it, I would look at the first, after the first year and absolutely see what else is out there in the market. But generally speaking, it’s two to three years. They want to see you in business for two to three years, because then they can look at a lost history.

for the prior years with the other insurance company and they can see that. They can look at your driving record and everything we talked about earlier, but they can also see the lost history at that point too.

Caroline (39:34.423)
I see. How are insurance requirements, plans, coverages changing in 2025 and what are you expecting things to do in 2026?

Matt Planeta (39:47.695)
I don’t think it’s going to be much different in 2026 than what it is currently. I think the biggest thing that I’m seeing is the increase in cargo limits required. Again, because the cost of goods has gone up, I’m seeing more and more.

Caroline (39:54.895)
Okay.

Matt Planeta (40:06.734)
that you used to be able to to haul, use 100,000 of cargo. That was the limit that you need and you can haul for just about everybody there. Seeing more and more of the requiring above the 100,000 on the cargo. So seeing that a little bit. And then also even on the liability side, the million dollars was kind of the industry standard for a long time and I’m seeing more and more.

non-has-mat, non-specialized companies, whether it’s the brokers or the shippers, requiring more than just the million dollars in limits. And again, that’s because there’s more claims that go above the million, and so they’re requiring the trucking companies to carry higher limits to offer more. It protects them more if the trucking company’s carrying the higher limits.

Caroline (40:51.045)
Sometimes I think they just pull these numbers out of thin air because $1 million for liability and then $100,000 for cargo. It just sounds too perfect. Like, why do you need $100,000 and not $102,000?

Matt Planeta (41:07.094)
Yeah, exactly. The nice round numbers. They like the nice round numbers. Yes. Yeah. Well, I think it’s just because it’s an easy industry standard. they’re good. So let’s talk about the cargo. Their goods may only be worth 80,000 usually, but

Caroline (41:09.957)
Right, they seem sort of absurd. Like, where do those numbers come from?

Caroline (41:21.48)
Hmm.

Matt Planeta (41:30.286)
They say, what if we throw, if it’s a load that’s more than 80,000? So try to set that limit for each individual load would be tough. Yeah, so they’ll set that standard at like 100,000 because they know that their product is always going to be under 100,000. It may be 90,000 sometimes, it may be 10,000 sometimes, but they know that it’s not going to be 100 or over 100. So then they can use that as kind of the threshold on there.

Caroline (41:36.579)
It’s like a little bit higher than…

Caroline (41:58.039)
If a small carrier has a claim on their insurance, what can they do to either get it removed or like what kind of recourse do I have if a broker or a shipper puts a claim on one of my loads?

Matt Planeta (42:18.798)
So if, that’s a good question. if the claim, sometimes claims come in and you were not at fault on the claim. Something happened that was beyond your control, but the claim got filed. So making sure to communicate to, again, to the underwriter and to the insurance company that it was not not at fault claim. Some insurance companies will actually help you try to subrogate or go back against the at fault party on that.

I see this a lot of times on physical damage because maybe there’s a private passenger vehicle that doesn’t have insurance, has state minimum insurance, not enough insurance to cover the cost and they do damage to the truck and the trailer, but they don’t have, like I said, either they don’t have insurance or they don’t have enough insurance to cover that. So then the trucking company has to turn around and file a claim against their own insurance policy for the physical damage to get their equipment repaired.

Caroline (42:58.861)
Hmm.

Caroline (43:17.249)
I see. So, but that matters, right? Whether you’re at fault or not, that’s going to matter then when it comes to renewal and getting your new premiums. If you weren’t at fault, it won’t count against you as much. And then if you were at fault, it will.

Matt Planeta (43:24.75)
Correct. Yeah.

Matt Planeta (43:31.503)
So generally when you’re looking at just the numbers, the numbers they’re going to look at it the same, whether it was at fault or not at fault, they’re going look at it the same. So again, that’s working with your correct. Yep. And just the pure math of it of premium in and claims going out. But again, working with your broker and making sure that they’re communicating that to the underwriter saying, know,

Caroline (43:38.959)
Mmm.

because it’s risk exposure regardless.

Matt Planeta (43:57.527)
Yes, there’s this claim on there, but here’s the situation. This was a wrong way hack, so the other person didn’t have insurance. It was beyond the control of this trucking company, ABC, that you’re insuring. Yes, there was a claim, these are the circumstances on it. So hopefully they don’t penalize them as much as they would on just an at-fault claim.

Caroline (44:19.855)
Can you tell me about a recent situation with a claim that was really interesting or educational for you? Like, what’s a recent claim that really stuck out to you?

Matt Planeta (44:36.45)
So I had a claim with a client and they were going through and it was a green light for them, a red light for the cross traffic. And they were going through the intersection on a green light, the other car ran the red light and actually the other driver.

was intoxicated and all kinds of stuff and didn’t have insurance and they had a dash cam. You can see this other other truck go through around the other traffic in the intersection and and my client actually t-boned them in the intersection and

The sad thing was because of where it happened, was a comparative negligence states. They basically said my client was going, and I forget what the number was exactly, six over the speed limit or something like that, just with the flow of traffic. But because they argued that because they were going six over the speed limit, if they were going the speed limit at that time, they wouldn’t have been in the intersection at the same time that that guy ran the red light in front of them.

and they ended up paying part of the claim themselves, even though they did nothing wrong other than going with the flow of traffic.

Caroline (45:42.863)
And this was truck, truck on truck crash. Okay. And the tractor trailer was your client, I assume.

Matt Planeta (45:45.518)
It was a pickup truck and a tractor trailer.

Correct. Tractor Shale is my client. And then, you know, talked a little bit about the dash cams there. I’ve had several claims where the dash cams have exonerated my clients because the other person tries to say, you know, they were at fault because they did this or this and then, but the dash cam shows something different. The dash cam is black and white and it gives the insurance company the ability to deny the claim. Where before, if this was…

Caroline (46:05.592)
Really?

Matt Planeta (46:20.974)
10 years ago, 15 years ago, even if the trucking company was not at fault in it, they feel like they would have paid a certain amount just to try and defend the trucking company and they would have probably settled that claim for a little bit of money. Now with the dashcam, they can deny it upfront.

Caroline (46:26.905)
Hmm.

Caroline (46:38.573)
I know a lot of people don’t like all of the dash cam and being recorded all the time, boy, it really sounds like this is a huge benefit of that technology.

Matt Planeta (46:50.53)
Yes, yes, and I know, and it seems in my perspective, in my conversations, it seems like the dash cam stance is kind of softening a little bit where before a lot of people were like, I’m not putting a camera on my truck, I’m not doing it, I’m not doing it.

Caroline (47:01.071)
Mm.

Matt Planeta (47:05.998)
where it truly is most of time is for their own protection. You know, if they’re working, if they’re a driver working for a company that has multiple trucks, there’s not one, there has to be an event that trigger the recording of the camera. There’s not people that are sitting there watching the camera and paying attention all the time on that. And then the other thing is, you know, the cameras could be either forward facing or.

driver and forward-facing too. So if they’re not comfortable with the driver-facing camera, at least putting the forward-facing cameras in there is a start.

Caroline (47:39.225)
Right? Is there anything else, any other advice or situation or concept that we haven’t covered yet that you would really like to share?

Matt Planeta (47:51.853)
I think the only thing that I would like to mention is a lot of times insurance is the necessary evil. You have to have insurance to…

to run, it’s expensive and people don’t want to like dealing with it until something happens. understanding that, making sure that as the year goes along, if there’s claims, especially if you’re multiple trucks and that kind of stuff, at least pull in loss runs and understanding what your losses look like during the year. Not waiting until renewal time where you get surprised where there’s a claim that’s open for 50,000, has a $50,000 reserve.

on something that you weren’t at fault on that should have been closed out, you know, months ago. So trying to stay on top of that stuff throughout the year and not waiting until renewal time. And it goes, so that’s the claims and it’s also the DOT compliance, staying on top of that, making sure that you’re not waiting until the last minute and it’s too late on there at that point. Because I…

Caroline (48:54.073)
We have so many related videos that we’ve done with compliance experts that say the same thing. You have to keep on top of that information. Otherwise, it’s going to come back to bite you and it’s going to surprise you.

Matt Planeta (49:02.274)
to.

Matt Planeta (49:05.996)
Yeah, and it’s too late then at that point. A lot of times if you’re not staying on top of it, it’s too late. You even on the compliance side, I have people that something will show up on their DOT number that wasn’t their driver, their truck, and it’s just because a number got transposed when it was put into the system. So just being aware of what’s going on there is important.

Caroline (49:29.123)
Right. Even if you are, even the perfect driver, the perfect company still has to keep an eye on it because mistakes can be made and you only have so much time to go back and challenge those entries.

Matt Planeta (49:41.87)
Yep, exactly right. Yep, there’s a window to data queue to get those off of there. And if you’re a small company and you’re a well-run company, it’s not gonna take you that long to look at it because you’re not gonna have that many inspections to see. I mean, if you have one that shows up on there that’s not yours, it’s gonna stand out right away and then you can address it and move on instead of trying to deal with it. It’s gonna cost you more time trying to deal with it eight months down the road.

Caroline (50:10.297)
Right. And honestly, just the fact of not keeping up with something like that is already a sign, right? That, that you might not know everything that you need to be doing to run that business. So it’s just another thing on that weekly monthly checklist of things to run your business smoothly is checking that off and making sure that you’re monitoring every factor that plays in to the safety and financial sustainability of your business.

Matt Planeta (50:40.649)
And like you said, it’s a lot. mean, because as a small business owner, they wear a lot of hats. It may be a driver, it may be a dispatcher, it may be sales, it may be maintenance. I mean, there’s a lot of things that go into what they have to do to run their own trucking company. But it really doesn’t take that much time and it could be important to stay on top of that throughout the year.

Caroline (51:05.666)
Right? Simple does not always mean easy. It’s pretty simple to put it on a checklist. It’s harder to check 52 weeks out of the year. Every, every single week. Definitely. Matt, thank you so much for joining us. I know I learned a ton. This was packed full of really good information. We will leave links to other related videos in the description as well as a subscription link to our

Matt Planeta (51:08.206)
Correct. Correct.

Matt Planeta (51:15.224)
Correct, yep, exactly. Yep, exactly.

Caroline (51:35.275)
newsletter that we are now making available to subscribers for free that gets you all of our latest episodes plus information on freight market data, where you should be hauling, what regions you should be focusing on for those three equipment types, reefer flatbed and dry van. Matt, again, thank you so much for spending your time with us. And if you have questions for Matt,

Leave them in the comments because we will get them back to Matt and get answers from him and respond to those comments as soon as we can.

Matt Planeta (52:12.718)
Thank you, Caroline. I appreciate it. I enjoy talking about the industry. can go on and on. So I appreciate the opportunity.

Caroline (52:19.503)
Cool, thanks Matt.