Please note that all instances of “MidWest Box Trucking” in the transcript should be understood to refer to Caroline and vice versa. We apologize for any confusion this may cause and appreciate your understanding.

MidWest Box Trucking

Caroline: [00:00:00] welcome to this week in Trucking, where we showcase serious trucking professionals and share real numbers about their businesses so that you can know what it takes to do well in this industry. Today I’m talking to Antoine from Midwest Box Trucking. Thanks so much

Caroline: for being here, Antoine.

Caroline: Appreciate you. Thank

Caroline: you.

MidWest Box Trucking: So tell me about your

MidWest Box Trucking: business.

MidWest Box Trucking: Us.

Caroline: Yeah, I run a. Small trucking company, pretty much out of a box truck, and I’ve been running right at six years now. So I started in 2019 and pretty much I started in a couple cargo vans and a sprinter van and yeah, I did that for a while and then moved into a rental box truck. I think I did that for maybe two years, at which time I went ahead and purchased the box truck.

Caroline: So that’s what I’m in now. So I’ve transitioned

Caroline: over that six year period of time.

MidWest Box Trucking: Wow.

MidWest Box Trucking: So you started right before the

MidWest Box Trucking: post pandemic boom.

Caroline: Exactly. And unbeknownst to me, like I didn’t see it coming,

Caroline: [00:01:00] but yeah, it occurred like

Caroline: it wasn’t even a

Caroline: year later.

MidWest Box Trucking: Wow. That’s wild. So how many trucks are you just, you’re just running

MidWest Box Trucking: one truck today, then

Caroline: Yeah.

Caroline: Right now I’m running one truck. Like I said, it was a time where I had three smaller cargo vans

MidWest Box Trucking: I see.

Caroline: and a sprinter van, and it was a time also where I had two rental trucks, but I’ve scaled back since then. Just the difficulties and hiring and retaining drivers like I’ve been through that process as well.

Caroline: I think I’ve

Caroline: had.

Caroline: Eight employees total

MidWest Box Trucking: Oh wow.

Caroline: yeah, some were loaders and others were actual drivers. But yeah, that was

Caroline: another process in itself and just

Caroline: difficult to say the

Caroline: least.

MidWest Box Trucking: Yeah,

MidWest Box Trucking: no kidding.

MidWest Box Trucking: I’ll circle back to that. I wanna get into kind of the meat of it just to see where your business is at. It sounds like you have quite a bit of experience with this, so you probably track your numbers pretty carefully I

MidWest Box Trucking: would imagine.

Caroline: Yes. Yeah you want to be, tracking ’em as closely and it can become a, a task at [00:02:00] times, especially being an owner operator in the truck and so forth. But yeah, I definitely try

Caroline: to, I.

Caroline: Stay on numbers. Weekly,

MidWest Box Trucking: Yeah. All right. So let’s take a look at at the numbers. So we use trucker calculator. I don’t, have you ever seen

MidWest Box Trucking: this before?

Caroline: yes. I

Caroline: believe I’ve seen it at least once in the

Caroline: past. Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: It’s a

MidWest Box Trucking: cool platform. Yeah. It’s, a

MidWest Box Trucking: neat platform.

MidWest Box Trucking: It’s it’s super simple, right? So It’s,

MidWest Box Trucking: just it’s just exactly what an, what, an owner operator might need. So I wanna jump in to the numbers ’cause that’s really what I think most people come on here to see. Just

MidWest Box Trucking: to see what’s normal.

MidWest Box Trucking: And the reason that we’re doing this

MidWest Box Trucking: is.

MidWest Box Trucking: A lot of times you see all kinds of content on YouTube about you should start a box truck business or you should start a Dr. A drive van reefer business or a cargo van business ’cause it’s just such easy money. Look at all this money flowing in. People love that, the idea of easy money, but I’m sure you know that in trucking there

MidWest Box Trucking: is no

MidWest Box Trucking: such thing.

Caroline: No, and I’ve talked about that [00:03:00] myself. But yeah, I think a lot of people do, as you say, look at these trucking companies as get rich quick schemes and yeah, it is nothing of the sort, it’s a whole lot more that comes with it. Outside of, I tell people you really, I know the money matters, that can’t be like the number one thing.

Caroline: It has to be some

Caroline: other driving force for

Caroline: you to want

Caroline: to run a trucking company. Otherwise, I don’t think,

MidWest Box Trucking: Otherwise you wouldn’t pick trucking.

Caroline: Exactly.

MidWest Box Trucking: So let’s talk about those numbers for your business. You said that you track ’em on a weekly basis.

Caroline: Yes.

MidWest Box Trucking: Let’s start out with the total number of day. How many days a week do you work?

Caroline: On average four to six,

MidWest Box Trucking: Okay,

Caroline: and I say on average, normally

Caroline: I usually

Caroline: run like a five day work week, but it varies. Sometimes a little bit less, a little bit

Caroline: more. So we could base it off maybe

Caroline: five days.

MidWest Box Trucking: Yeah. If it’s either four

MidWest Box Trucking: or six, then yeah, five would

MidWest Box Trucking: be, sounds like

MidWest Box Trucking: it’s a, about the average. What about how many miles do you run

Caroline: In a,

Caroline: week

Caroline: I run approximately 2000

Caroline: miles,

MidWest Box Trucking: Okay,

Caroline: [00:04:00] give or

Caroline: take. Once again, just common sense, but Yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: Where do you

MidWest Box Trucking: go?

Caroline: I’m regional, so I

Caroline: go places like Michigan I’m in Illinois, I go to

Caroline: Michigan, Indiana, Iowa. Wisconsin, and I’m not even

Caroline: ever really going into Minnesota as of late.

Caroline: So yeah, pretty much regional Chicago, land Illinois

Caroline: and the outskirts, if you

Caroline: will. Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: On average, how much do you gross in a week? So just total amount paid for all loads in those five days.

Caroline: I would say about on average,

Caroline: let’s go with 3,500, I was gonna say 38, but

Caroline: and that’s average. Oftentimes you can

Caroline: make well above that. But once again,

Caroline: yep. Just

MidWest Box Trucking: Yeah, you

MidWest Box Trucking: wanna Yeah. In averaging it out, I, that is really key here. So this is on average, there might be some weeks where you work two days and make

MidWest Box Trucking: $800. There might be some weeks where you work six days and

MidWest Box Trucking: make $8,000. It is just depends on what [00:05:00] contracts you have access to. What loads, how lucky you get on the load board, right?

MidWest Box Trucking: Like it, it is. We are talking on average here. You said that you own your truck d have you paid it

MidWest Box Trucking: off yet or you’re

Caroline: No, I’m financing. Sorry, to

Caroline: Correct myself. Yep. I’m financing.

Caroline: Yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: And how much is your, how much is your, monthly

MidWest Box Trucking: payment? ’cause it pro, I’m

MidWest Box Trucking: guessing you

MidWest Box Trucking: have a monthly payment, not a

Caroline: Yeah, it’s 1400

Caroline: a month.

MidWest Box Trucking: Okay.

MidWest Box Trucking: How much did you buy your truck for?

Caroline: 50,000 and that includes a warranty as well. So we were coming off of, ’cause it was a point and period where it was

Caroline: 80, 90,000 for a

Caroline: used box truck, which is pretty

Caroline: crazy.

MidWest Box Trucking: when did you

MidWest Box Trucking: buy

MidWest Box Trucking: it?

Caroline: I bought mines July of 23, so almost two

Caroline: years ago.

MidWest Box Trucking: Wow. So you got a good deal then

Caroline: Yeah, it was a

Caroline: pretty good

Caroline: deal.

MidWest Box Trucking: then.

Caroline: No, they were, like I said, they were coming down,

Caroline: but you could still find

Caroline: ’em for 70 or

Caroline: 80 easily. When I bought

Caroline: mine,

MidWest Box Trucking: Did you have to fly out somewhere to get [00:06:00] it or did you buy

MidWest Box Trucking: it locally?

Caroline: yes. I flew to Pennsylvania and I had a series of options. I was looking at one in Ohio, ’cause I bought through Penske. So on that website it’s a abundance of. Trucks, and depending on which truck you choose, it’ll take you to somewhere here in the US so they have ’em from California all the way over to,

Caroline: Virginia

Caroline: and places like that.

Caroline: Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: And so you found it on the Penske website. Did you consider any other sources? I know people, some people find trucks, all kinds of places, right? eBay and

MidWest Box Trucking: Facebook.

Caroline: And yeah, I looked at Ryder and I kinda went off just a feel from when I went in and I talked to different representatives, but yeah, I ended up going with Penske. But yeah, I looked at Ryder. I looked a little online because I thought we’re going with something substantially older. ’cause I got a 2017 freight liner and I thought about going with a

Caroline: 2004 freight

Caroline: liner. Which is substantially older, but [00:07:00] a lot more cost effective. So I decided I wanted to go newer just because a lot of the brokers, have

Caroline: guidelines pertaining to, the year of truck they’ll use. A lot of ’em are 2012 or newer I believe. So that was something I was considering. But yeah, I ended up settling with

Caroline: Penske and going with a

Caroline: newer truck within the last seven years or so.

MidWest Box Trucking: Did maintenance, potential maintenance costs work into that decision as well?

Caroline: In a way because yeah, I did run into some maintenance issues, but yeah, I kinda went off of Penske’s leveling system where they kinda sort the trucks out and pretty much pick ’em apart for you and tell you somewhat

Caroline: the condition of them. Yep. That.

Caroline: Played into it as well.

Caroline: Yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: Yeah. And I’m Just

MidWest Box Trucking: thinking, 2000. You said it’s a

MidWest Box Trucking: 2017?

Caroline: yes.

MidWest Box Trucking: Yeah. You could get, any year from, 2005, 2000 to 2017. But if you’re going with a 20-year-old truck, that’s gonna have a lot more maintenance. It’s cost effective upfront, but [00:08:00] then how long is it gonna last? And how much

MidWest Box Trucking: maintenance do you have to put in?

Caroline: See, you think a lot like me, ’cause I’ve talked about that as well, initially, it’s seven, eight grand for one of those. Maybe a oh 2, 0 4 freight liner, but Yep. Further down the line, and

Caroline: then the opportunities that you may miss

Caroline: as well, I feel like those will

Caroline: cost you

MidWest Box Trucking: Like when your truck breaks down.

Caroline: that. And then brokers that may not work with you because your truck’s too

Caroline: old, ’cause they’re getting so strict now, with the abundance of. Carriers entering. A lot of companies won’t even touch you until the six month mark, but they’re also very strict in requesting VIN numbers for the truck so they can look them up themselves to see the year,

Caroline: make, and

Caroline: model. So

Caroline: yeah, that’s something that’s different now.

MidWest Box Trucking: definitely. And with fuel

MidWest Box Trucking: emissions regulations, that’s not that’s not such a big deal in the Midwest yet.

Caroline: No.

MidWest Box Trucking: see, and Midwest is usually

MidWest Box Trucking: one of the slower regions to get on board with stuff

MidWest Box Trucking: like that. But if you’re out west,

MidWest Box Trucking: You have to make [00:09:00] sure that your truck is gonna

MidWest Box Trucking: comply with any

Caroline: Exactly. Yeah. That they’re very strict on the emissions, especially like California,

Caroline: so forth. So Yep, you’re absolutely right.

Caroline: It’s trucks that are completely not usable.

Caroline: In the, some of the Western states due to regulations and oftentimes you could find trucks cheaper over in that region.

Caroline: You’ll see a lot of individuals fly over

Caroline: to California

Caroline: to purchase

Caroline: box trucks at a cheaper rate than what you

MidWest Box Trucking: use ’em out there anymore.

Caroline: exactly the same truck you could bring to Illinois or Wisconsin and run perfectly fine once you register it, but it’s yeah, unusable. And the state of California

Caroline: due to emission regulations,

Caroline: as you stated.

Caroline: Yeah, it gets tricky.

MidWest Box Trucking: It does. Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: It can get

MidWest Box Trucking: complicated. You don’t have a trailer ’cause you

MidWest Box Trucking: have a box

MidWest Box Trucking: truck. What about insurance? Tell me about what are you paying for insurance on a, is it

MidWest Box Trucking: on a monthly basis or are

Caroline: Yeah. Monthly I pay about seven 50

Caroline: a month. It’s seven 60,

Caroline: [00:10:00] so

MidWest Box Trucking: Okay.

MidWest Box Trucking: That’s pretty great.

MidWest Box Trucking: Is it not?

Caroline: That’s very good. I know individuals that are paying,

Caroline: and these are rare cases, and these are new companies, but in upwards of

Caroline: 2000

Caroline: a month

Caroline: for a OneDrive one truck,

MidWest Box Trucking: I’ve heard

MidWest Box Trucking: for some Class eight trucks, $35,000 a year.

Caroline: Oh yeah.

Caroline: Easy.

Caroline: But I’m

Caroline: speaking of just box structure. I know some guys

Caroline: that’s

Caroline: over two grand a month.

MidWest Box Trucking: What does this cover? Do you have, oh, I put that in trailer payment. Hold on, let me get that Out of trailer payment. Put it in truck insurance. What, so what kind of insurance do you have and

MidWest Box Trucking: how much does it

MidWest Box Trucking: cover?

Caroline: yeah, it’s the 1 million in general liability, a hundred thousand cargo. And because I run Amazon’s freight, they require a $2 million aggregate, which doesn’t add a whole bunch more onto the policy premium, but I. A little bit more. So 1 million

Caroline: General, a hundred thousand cargo, 2

Caroline: million aggregate, yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: And do [00:11:00] you put anything for yourself for salary?

Caroline: Yes. I try to pay myself and anybody that, they runs a company, sometimes you just cannot pay yourself. It’s been many weeks that, I wasn’t able to pay

Caroline: myself. So it happens, but I try to, on average, pay myself about seven 50 a week

MidWest Box Trucking: a week

Caroline: and yep, that be set aside for my personal expenses.

Caroline: So automatically I deduct it. But like I said, it’s been many weeks where I deduct zero because you know the needs of the business, whatever may come up, it could be a maintenance event or anything

Caroline: where you just can’t pay yourself for a couple weeks or

Caroline: more.

MidWest Box Trucking: Sure. You don’t have any deductions ’cause you’re not you’re running under your own authority.

Caroline: correct. Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: And then let’s talk about fuel. What kind of fuel mileage do you

MidWest Box Trucking: get?

Caroline: I wanna say I get about

Caroline: right around 10 miles to the gallon, give or take. Of course. And to sum that up, just to give you a more, I. Like numbers wise usually I think most owner operators, [00:12:00] including myself, a hundred to 150 per night. And if multiply that by five, you probably maybe 700, 800 a week.

Caroline: And that’s on a moderate week.

Caroline: Fuel wise, if you’re running,

Caroline: I’ve

MidWest Box Trucking: you’re talking

MidWest Box Trucking: about, you’re talking about, like weekly

MidWest Box Trucking: fuel expense?

Caroline: Correct. Yep. I’d say a hundred to 150 per day. But I’ve had weeks where my fuel expense was 1400

Caroline: for the week,

Caroline: and that’s probably high volume events. Peak

Caroline: season, November, December,

Caroline: you could

MidWest Box Trucking: then you’re going a

MidWest Box Trucking: lot more

MidWest Box Trucking: miles.

Caroline: Three or 400 miles a day,

Caroline: so that

MidWest Box Trucking: so

MidWest Box Trucking: like a conservative estimate on an

MidWest Box Trucking: average would be like seven 50,

Caroline: Seven 50.

Caroline: Perfect.

Caroline: Yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: and I think this will get

MidWest Box Trucking: us a 10 mile. A 10 miles per gallon. Yeah. So about

MidWest Box Trucking: 200 gallons.

Caroline: Yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: What about tolls? You’re around, I bet you’re going through Chicago a lot. Is there any that’s not real expensive, is it?

Caroline: it?

Caroline: can be, I would say [00:13:00] on average in a week.

Caroline: I may spend

Caroline: $10 in tos, and that’s me because of the area that I’m running in. A lot of individuals run in maybe the western suburbs and just other areas where, you know, more tolls or more toll rows. I also sometimes will run up towards Kenosha, Wisconsin from Illinois, and depending on which route you take.

Caroline: That direction it can cost you. But normally I don’t spend a lot in tos.

Caroline: A lot of weeks that will be zero.

Caroline: So that’s why I say maybe 10 to $20 a week, some weeks. And that just depends. If I’m doing a lot of daytime running, inner city, ’cause

Caroline: that’s when you’ll hit those toes. Otherwise you go

Caroline: avoid ’em at night ’cause it’s not so congested.

MidWest Box Trucking: Sure. Yeah. I just know out east the tolls can get

MidWest Box Trucking: really expensive.

Caroline: Coming back from like Pennsylvania and yeah, definitely. If you go over to Jersey, I bought a sprinter van over in Jersey when I was starting out, or no, I looked at a sprinter van. [00:14:00] Sorry I didn’t buy it there,

Caroline: but yeah, I drove over.

Caroline: Toes were crazy. Yep. Toes were crazy.

Caroline: Yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: So tell me about maintenance. What do you set aside something every week, or do you just have a general amount that you usually

MidWest Box Trucking: spend? I.

Caroline: I.

Caroline: normally don’t set aside anything per week. I just prepare for it long term wise. So it’s in the account, but I don’t have a separate account for, I just pay myself the rest, I use for whatever the business needs are, and then I just save the rest. So what I’m saving.

Caroline: Covers my maintenance when it arises. ’cause oftentimes if you’re doing the proper PMs, oil changes, tire changes and so forth, you can avoid a lot of those unexpected maintenance events. It’ll happen once or twice a year. I would think that if you’re, running your business properly, you’ll have fun set aside for a maintenance.

Caroline: Now I do know individuals that have a.

Caroline: Separate account for maintenance, but me personally, I

Caroline: don’t do that.

Caroline: Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: And [00:15:00] if you were to add

MidWest Box Trucking: up, preventive maintenance and oil changes all that on a monthly or weekly basis, how much does that

MidWest Box Trucking: run you?

Caroline: Preventative it depends on what I would include, but I would say preventative is like something that I did last night, whereas when the temp drops. Below 30 degrees you gotta have anti gel, death and things of that nature. But for preventative maintenance, and I talked about this recently, but I would do it off of a quarter type of deal.

Caroline: I would say maybe 2,500 a

Caroline: quarter,

MidWest Box Trucking: Okay.

Caroline: and that

Caroline: maybe excess, but that’s what I would set aside if I was just making, maintenance

Caroline: fund, I would say maybe 25 per quarter.

MidWest Box Trucking: Got

MidWest Box Trucking: it.

Caroline: like I said, it could be a lot more, but on average, a regular PM is gonna cost me

Caroline: about $330, and I’ll do one of

Caroline: those every two

Caroline: months.

Caroline: So

MidWest Box Trucking: Got it. Okay. I’m just gonna put two 10,

MidWest Box Trucking: because that’s

MidWest Box Trucking: about

MidWest Box Trucking: how much it would be per week,

Caroline: Yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: right? If you,

MidWest Box Trucking: just

MidWest Box Trucking: Take the 2,500, divide that by 12 [00:16:00] weeks.

Caroline: And I’m gonna tell you, some owner operators may look at that as excessive. Like I said a regular PM would be three 30 every couple months. But I’ve had a transmission issue that cost me 4,500. I’ve had several issues that were 18, 1900. So you get a couple of those in a quarter,

Caroline: easily get you to that

Caroline: 25, but it could be way less.

Caroline: Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: What about ELD? What kind of ELD

MidWest Box Trucking: do you have?

Caroline: I have a ELD through Motive, formerly known as Keep Trucking, and that runs about 600 a

Caroline: year.

Caroline: Including the equipment that they sent

Caroline: you initially? Yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: so 600 a year divided by 52 weeks in a year

MidWest Box Trucking: is 50. is that right?

MidWest Box Trucking: That’s not right.

Caroline: What was

Caroline: it? 50?

MidWest Box Trucking: No,

Caroline: I would say

Caroline: 80, maybe closer

Caroline: to

Caroline: maybe 69. Let’s

Caroline: say 69.

MidWest Box Trucking: Let’s try the ’cause it’s per

MidWest Box Trucking: week,

Caroline: Okay.

MidWest Box Trucking: so it’ll be, so it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be less, but it’s about

MidWest Box Trucking: 60. It’d be about

MidWest Box Trucking: 48 a month, give or take. 52

MidWest Box Trucking: weeks in a year. [00:17:00] I’m just apparently. Bad at simple math, but that’s why we have calculators. I, my grade school teacher was always like, you’re not gonna have a calculator on you all the time, so you better learn this now.

MidWest Box Trucking: Jokes

MidWest Box Trucking: on her.

Caroline: exactly. Yeah. I’m the same way. I use it

Caroline: for everything. Got one right back here, so yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: What about ifta? You’re going across state lines, so you have to have

MidWest Box Trucking: an, an nif, a license and pay those quarterly taxes. How much do you usually have to pay

MidWest Box Trucking: per

Caroline: Now, if the, if you’re not in a CDL box

Caroline: truck,

MidWest Box Trucking: Ah.

Caroline: it, it is not

Caroline: required. But now if you’re in a box truck,

Caroline: 33. Thousand pounds. You are required if the, I do know some individuals, they’re

Caroline: in semis. I think they’re paying close to

Caroline: 3000

Caroline: a year, but

MidWest Box Trucking: But their numbers are gonna look really different, right?

MidWest Box Trucking: ’cause they can do

MidWest Box Trucking: bigger loads.

Caroline: don’t know anybody that’s

Caroline: running.

Caroline: Yeah, A CDL box

Caroline: truck. Those are pretty

Caroline: rare, so

Caroline: yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: got it. All right. So we keep that one. All right, so now we are [00:18:00] at we’ve got our total amount. These are all the numbers that you would need to make this calculation. You gotta know how much you made, how many days that you worked during that period, how many total miles you ran, and then all of your costs.

MidWest Box Trucking: And that’s what you get like the summary up here. So this is looking,

MidWest Box Trucking: pretty nice.

Caroline: It. It does. I like

Caroline: this

Caroline: calculator.

MidWest Box Trucking: You’ve got a rate per mile on average of 1

MidWest Box Trucking: 75 and a cost per mile of one 14. You’re making a 35% net profit off of this. Now someone did recognize in our last video that we didn’t talk about, self-employment tax and income tax. So that’s also something that you gotta keep in mind that, any profit that you make off of your business as a business owner is gonna get taxed as income, right? The rates might, depend there’s a federal rate, but there are also state self income

MidWest Box Trucking: or self-employment

Caroline: And it depends on what you make overall,

Caroline: Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: So this isn’t necessarily take home, but [00:19:00] it is take home,

MidWest Box Trucking: for the business itself. Do any of these numbers surprise you?

MidWest Box Trucking: Is or is

Caroline: I’m looking,

Caroline: It is my, when I calculate my cost per mile,

Caroline: I’m right up under one 30 per mile. And I know I’m over, I purposely over calculate it,

Caroline: with fuel and so forth. I use a larger

Caroline: number

MidWest Box Trucking: and

MidWest Box Trucking: there’s other stuff here. I don’t know if you ever have to stay in hotels

MidWest Box Trucking: or if you add

MidWest Box Trucking: meals. Okay.

Caroline: Yo. With me being. Pretty much regional. Yeah. I’m rarely, I may get one or two a month, but I know guys that get substantially more, per month. Maybe like a buddy of mine right now, he’s an owl and he’s gonna be there for a while, so he may end up getting, like you said, a hotel. so

Caroline: it

Caroline: happens, just depending on the situation.

MidWest Box Trucking: Yeah. And how

MidWest Box Trucking: you’re

MidWest Box Trucking: Triangulating loads

Caroline: in a big

Caroline: circle. Yep. Like I left home

Caroline: about 2:00 AM last night and I was back home by 10 and it was a pretty profitable run. It is just, I [00:20:00] know certain days when I can go out, catch one really quick and it just

Caroline: Like I said, loop me in a circle to where I don’t

Caroline: have to worry about,

Caroline: Being out. yeah.

Caroline: Truck stop or a

Caroline: hotel. So

MidWest Box Trucking: Do you

MidWest Box Trucking: prefer to be out at

MidWest Box Trucking: night?

Caroline: Yes, definitely.

MidWest Box Trucking: Tell me

MidWest Box Trucking: why.

Caroline: First and foremost,

MidWest Box Trucking: multiple people.

Caroline: traffic.

MidWest Box Trucking: Okay.

Caroline: Yep. Passenger vehicles. It can just get tricky, and some of my content, I show, I. When we are in these trucks, we’re responsible, for other individuals and yeah, daytime driving, especially inner city, Chicagoland area,

Caroline: Georgia, New York.

Caroline: It just gets crazy, it can exaggerate trip times, a normal trip that would take me 35, 40 minutes, if you catch it. 3, 4, 5 pm Chicagoland area, that can turn into, two hours easy, maybe more. So that’s just something that a lot of drivers, tend to try to avoid.

Caroline: And now that we have Amazon Relay really popular for box trucks, a lot of individuals do tend to run later [00:21:00] at

Caroline: night. So yeah, I think that’s a plus for

Caroline: a lot of people, just being honest with you.

MidWest Box Trucking: How do you get

MidWest Box Trucking: or source your loads? Have you always done Amazon? Is that most of what you

MidWest Box Trucking: do?

Caroline: For the most part now, as I stated, I started in a Sprinter van, so then I started local. I ran with a company, it was called like Veterans Distribution. I think they’ve since gone out of business, but I worked with them for about a year. Doing local moving. We moved taffy, apples, medical surpr supplies, just a slew of different items, whatever they could get into their warehouse.

Caroline: So I started there and then I went into expediting still in a van, I signed on with a carrier. It would take me usually to like North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, and back. So I was doing that for a while and then I was sourcing loads through, like I said, an expedited shipping company.

Caroline: So I’ve been local and had a contract work expedited in the van. And then since I’ve been in the box truck, [00:22:00] mainly Amazon Relay and I supplemented with gig apps, mobile phone apps that, daily push out loads and highest bidder gets some. So that’s a lot of what I do now as well.

Caroline: I know a lot of individuals

Caroline: that also source through like a DAT truck

Caroline: stop and so forth. So

Caroline: it’s a

MidWest Box Trucking: you’re not really using those load

Caroline: no, I try to I really try to be as simple as possible. The more services you use for those, the more costs you incur. And as much as I can stay away from dAT and I do know people that use it, and they’ll give me little hits here and there of things that I can, pick up on. But yeah, as long as I can I try to have the minimalist

Caroline: not necessarily, I know a lot of people that have

Caroline: it and

Caroline: they don’t actually use it, so

Caroline: Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: like you’re just saying, you know what, I’m one person.

MidWest Box Trucking: I can only handle so much. And might as well keep

MidWest Box Trucking: things

MidWest Box Trucking: simple,

Caroline: until something seems, and now we’ve seen where the gig apps are not as lucrative, if you will, they’re not paying as much. [00:23:00] They’ve cut a lot of the rates. So lately, honestly, I have been thinking about maybe getting into a DAT or some of that nature. ’cause like I said, I got a buddy that keep telling me.

Caroline: It’s so much during the day, like local and regional that you can do, on that side. So yeah, eventually I’m gonna have to get away from, that practice. But yeah, as long as I can run, in the manner I’m running, it is, like I said,

Caroline: very cost effective.

Caroline: So keeping,

Caroline: Overhead

Caroline: down.

MidWest Box Trucking: Keep it simple.

Caroline: Yep,

MidWest Box Trucking: How

MidWest Box Trucking: have so in the last couple of years. Fraud in trucking has been a huge issue. And a lot of these bigger companies like Amazon are creating new rules for

MidWest Box Trucking: carriers

MidWest Box Trucking: that they have to have so much time on

MidWest Box Trucking: their authority or Right. Or they have to

MidWest Box Trucking: have, they have to meet certain requirements.

MidWest Box Trucking: Did that affect you at all when those rules came in and how do you suggest that a brand new carrier would manage

MidWest Box Trucking: that?

Caroline: Yeah, it did because even people that had been running Amazon [00:24:00] for a long period of time, eventually, once the rules became stricter, yeah. We felt it as well, and I. Little corners that we, everybody knows this, certain corners you can cut. Yeah. A lot of those were removed and just being 100% honest, Amazon is aware of everything that’s going on.

Caroline: They’ll let things slide until they don’t

Caroline: want to let it slide anymore. But I tell individuals

Caroline: they see

Caroline: everything,

MidWest Box Trucking: Like just because you get away with something once doesn’t mean that they don’t know. It just means they’re

MidWest Box Trucking: letting you get away with it.

Caroline: Un until they’re not. So Exactly. And I’ve told individuals that, ’cause it’s certain features that we were able to override and they would see it and they say, okay, you know it, no harm done. But then once you get so many individuals using these same practices, then it becomes somewhat of a nuisance situation.

Caroline: So then we’ll see. I. Them implement a bunch of different rules, like the 180 day rule. You used to be able to [00:25:00] get a authority and within two weeks to a month be running Amazon. And so that kind of saturated a lot of the industry and some individuals weren’t so happy about it. And I think after a year and a half, especially with it being like highly publicized on YouTube, it became, an issue with Amazon and it came to their attention. And then we saw all of these different rules implemented to where, yo, it’s a lot more stricter and it hurts a lot of new carriers because now it’s just not on the table. You gotta figure it out for six months and at the six month mark, it’s still not a guarantee that you’re gonna necessarily get in.

Caroline: So it’s a gamble with starting these trucking companies now, especially with a lot of individuals that. Specifically start up to run Amazon. You have a lot of, especially box trucks, but on a semi side as well. You’ll have individuals start trucking companies. They may just have a bobtail set up and look to pull Amazon trailers, or you have guys that, like you said, they specifically wanna [00:26:00] run at night.

Caroline: They don’t want to really mess with the daytime. They understand, their market and that it is, congested during the day, so you see both sides. And without Amazon now being on the table, like I said, it hurts a lot of

Caroline: new trucking companies. Box trucking as well as

Caroline: semi

MidWest Box Trucking: Yeah. I think it’s harder for newer folks now just ’cause the market is so much lower than it was a couple years ago.

Caroline: yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: How did you survive the sort of downfall of the market in the last couple of years? Rates were. Really high, really great in, end of 20 20, 20 21, 20 22, it was still okay, and then it started to fall off a cliff at the end of 2022.

MidWest Box Trucking: How did you manage that change?

MidWest Box Trucking: I.

Caroline: I think one of the things that that helped me was that I started. I moved over into box trucking ’cause we talked about the cargo vans. But when I moved into Box Trucking, I started in a rental and overhead in a rental. Even though it was much more easy to get by two, three years ago, you could survive in a rental.

Caroline: Now [00:27:00] you really have to have some type of strategy

Caroline: and a skillset. Some people do it, but. Very few rental wise, but by me starting in a rental, higher insurance pertaining to the rental, because normally then the rental trucks are newer, so that’s gonna affect the rate. And then just the overhead with the weekly mileage and so forth.

Caroline: I was accustomed to hire over here and I honestly feel like that’s. One of the things that saved me, me running in a rental for say, almost two years, I probably had eight to 10 different rental trucks over that time due to breakdowns, maintenance, and so forth. So yeah, that time I think it molded me to just pay a lot of attention to the rates that I would take, the deadhead that I was picking up.

Caroline: And different things of that nature. So once the market did take that downturn, I was able to transition into my own truck and I already had a, so I run my truck similar to a [00:28:00] rental now, and I think that kind of saves me, like I’m picking up, as little deadhead as possible. I’m watching my weekly miles constantly tracking numbers and. It can get tedious, but it is just something that you have to do. And I think individuals that aren’t in rentals, they run a lot more loosely,

Caroline: Pertaining to numbers and that can come

Caroline: back to bite you later on down the

Caroline: line.

MidWest Box Trucking: right. So you’re operating

MidWest Box Trucking: with the mindset. Of a really high rental truck

MidWest Box Trucking: rental payment every

MidWest Box Trucking: month, and

MidWest Box Trucking: so you have that, you’re running a tight ship

MidWest Box Trucking: because you’re, you trained yourself

MidWest Box Trucking: in that mindset.

Caroline: I got a buddy, he’ll tell me you could take that rate because you’re in your own truck, as opposed to, but I tell him the same thing. I still, look at rates as if I’m in a rental and that’s just being 100% honest. Yeah, every,

Caroline: and yeah, my buddy, he’s man, you can

Caroline: take that

Caroline: because it’s profitable. And I’m like, yeah,

Caroline: You get in there. Exactly. Is it even really?

MidWest Box Trucking: aside for a rainy

MidWest Box Trucking: day? Yeah.

Caroline: Exactly. Yep. So that’s the [00:29:00] sense I think. And then, if you get to running for the minimum, oftentimes too, we talked about paying yourself, you’ll see a lot of individuals that don’t have anything left over to pay themselves or don’t have money to set aside for like maintenance and things of that nature.

Caroline: So you know, all of that

Caroline: kind of,

Caroline: plays in.

Caroline: Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: Absolutely.

Caroline: Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: You talked a. Little bit about how you had a business with multiple vehicles at one point that you were hiring drivers, loaders.

MidWest Box Trucking: Talk to me a little bit about that. What was that, what did that journey look like and why have you ended up just simplifying down to one, one truck, one owner

MidWest Box Trucking: operator.

Caroline: Yeah, that was. I’ve talked about it, separately, but it was one of the, it was about a year’s span or so, maybe a little less, but it was one of the roughest points for me in business. And I think a lot of individuals don’t realize the task. You face sourcing drivers and not just [00:30:00] sourcing them because that’s easier than retaining drivers.

Caroline: Dealing with personalities, tendencies, habits, things of that nature. You get to really know individuals once they work for you, and it’s uncommon practices such as maybe advances and things of that nature, which once again, goes back to habits. Tendencies, the way you save money and things of that nature.

Caroline: I’ve had drivers call me and, not have fuel to get to the truck. So then I’m in a situation where I need to either send a cash app or a Zelle, and once this starts to happen, and this is just one of the issues, but when this starts to happen two and three times a week, sometimes I talked about to the individ, to the point where the individual.

Caroline: Really has no check at the end of the week. So then what’s really the incentive, to, so you start to run into problems on that end as well. So these are all things that, I encountered, just personal issues where I had a driver come [00:31:00] from, outta state, began to drive for me and then began to run into a bunch of personal issues.

Caroline: Deaths in the family, other obligations where they had to go back and forth. So I had this happen three or four times within a six month period of time where a driver from OUTTA State would be here in Illinois and then have to leave, but be adamant about coming back.

MidWest Box Trucking: Right.

Caroline: So it’s like a, back and forth and each time, I’m responsible for, it’s like.

Caroline: It gets personal because it’s like, how am I gonna get from the airport? Stuff like that. So yeah, it was difficult and just the revolving door. And then it’s also, money spent into sourcing drivers, indeed it’s pretty expensive to, pull in 20 or 30 applications.

Caroline: It’s not cheap now. I know. Then it was well over a hundred bucks. To just source that many applications just to sort through. So these are all things that I face and I’ve had equipment left, not [00:32:00] necessarily in the middle of nowhere, but places that it shouldn’t have been. Just different things that drivers, go through.

Caroline: So yeah, it was, like I said, it was a rough year or so, and it taught me a lot. I do feel like eventually within the next year, I’m gonna have to bring on another driver, but I’m not even looking to put a driver in a box truck, more so a cargo van due to, less restrictions, DT wise liability, risk associated.

Caroline: So all of that matters, when

Caroline: you are hiring and attempting

Caroline: to retain drivers,

Caroline: yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: Yeah. I think you’re touching on a point that’s

MidWest Box Trucking: really profound that when you’re running. A business and you have employees, there’s a personal relationship that is

MidWest Box Trucking: inevitable. It’s

Caroline: don’t know that. Yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: and it can’t

MidWest Box Trucking: be, and if you treat it as if it’s

MidWest Box Trucking: transactional,

MidWest Box Trucking: good luck retaining any employees because that’s not how human beings wanna be treated.

MidWest Box Trucking: And at the same time, treating some, caring about someone as a human being can be [00:33:00] painful. Because you, you also have the reality of your

MidWest Box Trucking: business that you have

Caroline: I was gonna

Caroline: say, it’s a it is a fine line. Like where am

Caroline: I?

MidWest Box Trucking: You’re not a nonprofit organization you’re a for-profit business. And I think that tension between wanting to support someone, wanting to be, a good employer and having a business reality.

MidWest Box Trucking: Is really hard for

MidWest Box Trucking: good people. It’s very, it’s a very easy, because it’s a non-issue. If you don’t care about people then it’s not an issue for you. Okay.

MidWest Box Trucking: I guess good for you,

MidWest Box Trucking: but what

Caroline: hard,

MidWest Box Trucking: but what kind of

MidWest Box Trucking: person do you really wanna be? And so that tension is hard.

Caroline: yep. And yeah we talk about that in our little box truck space, like emotions, feelings, and. Business and it can get very tricky, where is defined line, at what point do you say, Hey, even though you’re having two and three, deaths in the family, you got a vehicle that’s here.

Caroline: At what time do you say, okay, but I still [00:34:00] can’t, accept

MidWest Box Trucking: right.

Caroline: this behavior or so yeah, it is tricky and yeah, it can get.

Caroline: It just, it can just get, hairy to say the least. It’s just yeah. I saw it, and

Caroline: it’s not every driver,

Caroline: but

Caroline: you will get some, you’ll get people

Caroline: that’s,

MidWest Box Trucking: It’s a numbers game, right? You’re gonna have some people who are really great and really reliable and you never have to worry about them. And guess what? Those

MidWest Box Trucking: people cost

MidWest Box Trucking: more.

Caroline: Tell me about it. To retain them because. This is something I think individuals don’t think about, and this is something I encounter competition you have owner operators as myself, operating their own truck with a i four drivers. So like I can spot a good driver, somewhat, just by what they’re doing at a Amazon or three PL or so.

Caroline: Who’s to say, I can’t approach them and say, Hey, how much do you make? I can top that just because I really want to get out of the truck. I may have things going on at home, other endeavors, hey, I’ll pay you so much more. And I know I’ve [00:35:00] encountered that because I know I lost at least one driver to some situation of.

Caroline: That nature and, something people may need to know about, we’re hiring this, a such thing as a no compete or a non-compete, where people can’t, solicit your drivers in places you may ’cause we spend a lot of time sitting. Like I said, it’ll be an owner operator in a truck and he’s desperate to get out and he’s willing to pay a little more.

Caroline: It could be, any type of. Whatever the situation, that can become a problem. I know it’s happened to me at least once. I could tell by the story upon the exit that it was, another opportunity being presented because I had a driver that was on the fence like I think I’m going to be, leaving.

Caroline: I’m not sure, you know Something else

Caroline: is in play. So yeah, I’ve encountered

Caroline: that,

Caroline: definitely. Yep. Yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: What advice do you have for new trucking business owners? Even despite the downturn in the market, there’s still people entering this business who have a dream. They wanna start their trucking business. They’re willing to work [00:36:00] hard. What advice do you have for those folks who are starting out in 2025?

Caroline: To just be 100% honest. I talked about this as well, but me personally. I would try to start in something similar to a cargo van and that will get you in, cheaper insurance, a lower barrier of entry and just work your way up. That’s how I did it. So I wouldn’t advise because you’ll see individuals, they’ll jump straight into a box truck and if you know that’s what a person chooses to do, then.

Caroline: So be it. But like a higher failure rate, of individuals that jump into a truck because of the insurance, the fuel, sourcing work, sourcing drivers and so forth. It’s a different situation when you’re attempting to do that on a larger scale with more certifications, medical cards, DOT and so forth.

Caroline: With a cargo van, you more under the radar, you could learn the ropes, learn negotiations, bargaining, and things of that nature, and then move up. [00:37:00] That would be, my genuine advice to a newer person. But you have some people, they’re caught up in the earning potential of a box truck or a semi, so they would rather take the risk of, the higher overhead.

Caroline: More certifications, regulations, and things of that nature, to obtain a higher earning potential. But oftentimes we’ll see those individuals barely last a year. Whereas if they have been in a cargo van, they would still be around.

Caroline: So it is a situation of, what do you want in the long run?

Caroline: Because easy come, easy go. I said that as well. In some situations I feel like the turtle wins the race. So you’ll have people that’ll just want to jump right into a box truck and before you know it, you know you’re done and you’ve created a bunch of debt.

Caroline: That’s just something to think

Caroline: about for new people.

Caroline: Yeah,

MidWest Box Trucking: Yeah, I think I, what I hear you

MidWest Box Trucking: saying is that if you start off

MidWest Box Trucking: with something smaller, you’re going to learn a lot of the mechanics of running a [00:38:00] business, of running a transportation business that’s gonna be similar across the board. So maybe.

MidWest Box Trucking: Maybe in a cargo van, you’re the one loading and unloading.

MidWest Box Trucking: So that might be different than when you start running a box truck or if you get your CDL and you run a drive van or reer, right? Usually you’re not loading and unloading your own freight. So there, there are gonna be differences, but some of the basics,

MidWest Box Trucking: just booking loads, negotiating, creating relationships with your customers all of that is gonna be very similar across transportation businesses.

MidWest Box Trucking: And you can get your feet wet and say, all right, how much do you really want this? Now you’re in the reality of it.

MidWest Box Trucking: How much do you, are you willing to give up? And then you’ve not sacrificed as much capital

MidWest Box Trucking: investment.

Caroline: And even like any incidents or you see it, I think I was talking to a guy and he was asking me, what were the consequences because he had recently hit a gas pump.

Caroline: that stuff, it happens when you’re new

Caroline: and. The damage you’re gonna cause in a van, and you hate to think like this, but [00:39:00] it is just, it’s real.

Caroline: The damage you’re gonna cause in a cargo van as opposed to a box truck, two different things.

Caroline: The potential for, things being damaged. Two different things. Most of the damage you’re gonna do with a cargo van, you’re probably going to do two. That van you’ll see a lot of ’em have like little dents in the back doors, things that with a box truck, you’re knocking over poles, you’re tearing down gutters, you could destroy or damage a bridge.

Caroline: And all of this is like

Caroline: big DOT,

Caroline: Issues. So you get a driver

Caroline: route.

MidWest Box Trucking: you outta business in the,

Caroline: Quickly.

MidWest Box Trucking: and that’s not the worst case scenario.

MidWest Box Trucking: God forbid

MidWest Box Trucking: in a, the bigger the vehicle, the bigger risk to human

MidWest Box Trucking: life.

Caroline: Exactly. Exactly. Yep. 100%.

Caroline: Yep.

MidWest Box Trucking: That’s a great point.

MidWest Box Trucking: Something we didn’t talk about was compliance, but you just touched on it. Tell me a little bit about

MidWest Box Trucking: managing compliance for a semi-truck versus box truck versus. Cargo van, I know you haven’t operated a semi-truck before, but you probably [00:40:00] know people who do.

MidWest Box Trucking: What does that look like across different

MidWest Box Trucking: types

MidWest Box Trucking: of trucking businesses?

Caroline: with the semis, they have a different set up due to them having a sleeper. A lot of box trucks have a. Makeshift sleeper, if you will, and you do have a lot of box trucks that do run with, A ELD. But we also have a 16 hour rule where if you’re starting and ending in the same place, you can run like a log of, just drive time, start location, end location, and so forth.

Caroline: In the semi, you almost definitely gonna be operating exclusively with a ELD, which is a little more time consuming. It takes a little more knowledge to, and not a bunch, but you have to learn how to use it, how to input your hours, when to take breaks, log on and off. They also have split sleeper bursts where you could do seven hours off, go back on duty as opposed to the 10 hour.

Caroline: Downtime ’cause I know semis that they’ll utilize that as well. But yeah, in the bigger [00:41:00] trucks they have a sleeper and they’re, like I said, usually gonna be operating exclusively with a ELD. To be honest, box trucks is probably half and half if they’re not just OTR where you know, they’re running the US.

Caroline: Some may operate under the 16 hour rule, so it is a little less regulated. With the box trucks, it’s more of a gray area, and then a cargo van does not have to use a ELD at all, so they don’t have to log hours as of now. So once again, in the cargo van, you know it’s a lot more loose than even in the box truck.

Caroline: So that’s why I say it’s better to start there. Because once again, regulations, certifications and things of that nature, I’ve talked about like in a box truck, you need like a UCR or a United Carrier registration. You don’t need that in a cargo van. You don’t need a medical card, which we get a examination every two years.

Caroline: I got one coming up. So yeah, that’s something you [00:42:00] don’t need in a cargo van

Caroline: as well. The higher you go

Caroline: up the food chain, if you will,

Caroline: The more

MidWest Box Trucking: The more risk your business

MidWest Box Trucking: poses to the

MidWest Box Trucking: public, the more you’re gonna be

MidWest Box Trucking: subject to

MidWest Box Trucking: regulation.

Caroline: Just like with the ifta, like I said, most box trucks don’t deal with ifta, but you go into the semi new expense, and regulation.

Caroline: So yeah, it’s just that’s why I say the cargo van is, a safe bet for individuals just looking to fill it out

Caroline: and then, work their way up. But once again, the each is on,

Caroline: Yeah.

MidWest Box Trucking: Thank you so much,

MidWest Box Trucking: Anton, for joining us on

Caroline: no problem.

MidWest Box Trucking: trucking. This was really

MidWest Box Trucking: educational

MidWest Box Trucking: and a lot of really good

MidWest Box Trucking: advice

MidWest Box Trucking: here. And thanks for being so open about your numbers as well. I know that’s can be sensitive when you’re running a business, but you have enough experience, I think that.

MidWest Box Trucking: That you could be open about that. Your numbers don’t look too shabby either, so that helps. You sounds like you’re doing a great job and, that’s awesome. So thanks again for for joining us on this Weekend Trucking. [00:43:00] If you liked this episode, this conversation with Midwest Box Trucking, please follow Midwest Box Trucking on YouTube.

MidWest Box Trucking: We’ll link his channel in the description below. And also, if you’re not already subscribed to this Weekend Trucking, go ahead and like this video, hit subscribe so that you never miss out on another interview with trucking professionals.

MidWest Box Trucking: Thanks again, Antoine.

Caroline: And I appreciate you for having